Catholic_Lady Wrote:Can you tell me what you are referring to specifically? Are you talking about monogamy?

Yes, I am talking about monogamy. I think monogamy is unnatural for our species.

Sorry for the late response.

(March 30, 2018 at 8:16 am)rskovride Wrote:

Catholic_Lady Wrote:Can you tell me what you are referring to specifically? Are you talking about monogamy?

Yes, I am talking about monogamy.  I think monogamy is unnatural for our species.

Sorry for the late response.

Our species, as far as patterns seem to go, tends towards serial monogamy, especially historically. The most common mating pattern both historically looks to be a number of years of having one partner before moving on to the next (often with short periods of cheating when the gloss has worn off but before the break is made).

At least that's what I see from historical and current media.

(March 30, 2018 at 8:16 am)rskovride Wrote:

Catholic_Lady Wrote:Can you tell me what you are referring to specifically? Are you talking about monogamy?

Yes, I am talking about monogamy.  I think monogamy is unnatural for our species.

Sorry for the late response.

Um no, it is natural. There is no such thing as "unnatural". All ratios either way are BOTH natural. I wouldn't put it the way you are saying. 

I would say that evolution has lead life to make multiple attempts over the span of a lifetime. The more attempts at reproduction the more opportunity to lead to offspring.

I would say that the way religion sells monogamy is UNREALISTIC. Monogamy is certainly possible, but simply not mythological the way religion sells it.

Pairing is a way of social bonding, and that does happen in our species. What makes it  unrealistic the way religion sells it, is it is sold as a utopia and forever, and the truth is that isn't realistic considering human's feelings for each other can and do change over time. The way religion sells monogamy doesn't take into account that humans, both sexes, are individuals and many don't want to get shacked up but because of the societal pressures do.

Kids should not be sold the idea that they have to get married, instead they should be taught their own comfort level, be educated as to how their own bodies work, and if you don't want to be tied down, be honest with whom you are with from the start. And even if you chose to get married, same thing because it is ok to change over time. Healthy relationships are about honesty either way, and the ability to let go if things are not working.

Humans, both sexes, evolved to make several attempts over a lifetime, and that can be with one person or multiple people over long periods. Point being it is mixed not either or.


It is "Unrealistic" to expect one size fits all, but paring itself does happen otherwise it would never happen.

(March 30, 2018 at 8:30 am)Wololo Wrote:

(March 30, 2018 at 8:16 am)rskovride Wrote: Yes, I am talking about monogamy.  I think monogamy is unnatural for our species.

Sorry for the late response.

Our species, as far as patterns seem to go, tends towards serial monogamy, especially historically. The most common mating pattern both historically looks to be a number of years of having one partner before moving on to the next (often with short periods of cheating when the gloss has worn off but before the break is made).

At least that's what I see from historical and current media.

Yeah that seems to be the pattern, unless you have the ways and means for poly. For example, the the kings of Persia and Babylon had huge harems.

We could get pretty granular with serial monogamy. If you slept with Pat after breakfast then Taylor after dinner, it could still be argued that this was serial monogamy. Where is the line drawn?

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(March 30, 2018 at 8:41 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(March 30, 2018 at 8:16 am)rskovride Wrote:

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Yes, I am talking about monogamy.  I think monogamy is unnatural for our species.

Sorry for the late response.

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Um no, it is natural. There is no such thing as "unnatural". All ratios either way are BOTH natural. I wouldn't put it the way you are saying. 

I would say that evolution has lead life to make multiple attempts over the span of a lifetime. The more attempts at reproduction the more opportunity to lead to offspring.

I would say that the way religion sells monogamy is UNREALISTIC. Monogamy is certainly possible, but simply not mythological the way religion sells it.

Pairing is a way of social bonding, and that does happen in our species. What makes it  unrealistic the way religion sells it, is it is sold as a utopia and forever, and the truth is that isn't realistic considering human's feelings for each other can and do change over time. The way religion sells monogamy doesn't take into account that humans, both sexes, are individuals and many don't want to get shacked up but because of the societal pressures do.

Kids should not be sold the idea that they have to get married, instead they should be taught their own comfort level, be educated as to how their own bodies work, and if you don't want to be tied down, be honest with whom you are with from the start. And even if you chose to get married, same thing because it is ok to change over time. Healthy relationships are about honesty either way, and the ability to let go if things are not working.

Humans, both sexes, evolved to make several attempts over a lifetime, and that can be with one person or multiple people over long periods. Point being it is mixed not either or.


It is "Unrealistic" to expect one size fits all, but paring itself does happen otherwise it would never happen.

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Fine, unrealistic. I think we are talking about the same thing, in the context of religion's influence.

Thanks for the lmftfy.

(March 30, 2018 at 8:16 am)rskovride Wrote:

Catholic_Lady Wrote:Can you tell me what you are referring to specifically? Are you talking about monogamy?

Yes, I am talking about monogamy. I think monogamy is unnatural for our species.

Sorry for the late response.

Ok, so this is what you said:

Quote:The problem is ignorance and lack of acceptance of the true nature of human wants and desires; imposition of religious values that are in direct conflict of that true nature, brought on, in no small part, by sexual jealously .

...All the while here, you were referring to monogamy.

Lol, for one thing monogamy is by no means a purely religious value. The vast majority of atheists are monogamous, including those on this site. It also makes no sense to say monogamy is "ignorant" and is "the problem in relationships." I, for one, have 0 desire to cheat on my husband. If you feel differently about the women you've been with, that's on you. Dont project your antics on me and my husband.

(March 30, 2018 at 9:25 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(March 30, 2018 at 8:16 am)rskovride Wrote: Yes, I am talking about monogamy.  I think monogamy is unnatural for our species.

Sorry for the late response.

Ok, so this is what you said:

Quote:The problem is ignorance and lack of acceptance of the true nature of human wants and desires; imposition of religious values that are in direct conflict of that true nature, brought on, in no small part, by sexual jealously .

...All the while here, you were referring to monogamy.

Lol, for one thing monogamy is by no means a purely religious value. The vast majority of atheists are monogamous, including those on this site. It also makes no sense to say monogamy is "ignorant" and is "the problem in relationships." I, for one, have 0 desire to cheat on my husband. If you feel differently about the women you've been with, that's on you. Dont project your antics on me and my husband.

Religion does not explain why humans behave the way they do, good or bad. It only makes claims about why, sure, but they are hardly anything based on objective study.

What explains social bonding, and or making multiple attempts over a lifetime ISN'T  religion, but evolution.

Marriage is an artificial construct, social bonding is evolutionary. There was no such thing as a written religious ceremony 200,000 years ago and humans still bonded and still had multiple partners.

What makes infidelity cause emotional pain is they LYING and hiding and omitting, not the actual sex itself. Arguments in relationships over money and lying about finances can cause problems just as easily. 

The utopia script of the prom king and queen, an getting it right on the first attempt and staying married your entire life is NOT THE NORM. If anything causes divorce at a higher rate is selling that utopia to a kid a birth. Again, I think it is better to let a kid think for themselves, know their own comfort level, teach them good planning skills, teach them good conflict resolution skills, and the ability to be honest with themselves and whomever they may seek as a partner. 

It isn't to say never get married, but more to the point that what is important in ANY relationship is how you communicate and problem solve AND accepting that sometimes things don't work out.

(March 30, 2018 at 9:25 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Dont project your antics on me and my husband.

I didn't say anything about you or your husband. Sounds like you are the one projecting. Lol

I don't know anything about your relationship. If it is going great, that is awesome. But you are in the minority and statistically, chances are that it won't last.

And its monogamy within the context of religion that I think is unnatural or unrealistic as Brian pointed out. I guess I would have been better served by saying that religious influence on monogamy and marriage in general is a fucking shame and ridiculous.

You knew what I meant.

(March 30, 2018 at 10:10 am)rskovride Wrote:

(March 30, 2018 at 9:25 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Dont project your antics on me and my husband.

I didn't say anything about you or your husband. Sounds like you are the one projecting. Lol

I don't know anything about your relationship. If it is going great, that is awesome. But you are in the minority and statistically, chances are that it won't last.

And its monogamy within the context of religion that I think is unnatural or unrealistic as Brian pointed out. I guess I would have been better served by saying that religious influence on monogamy and marriage in general is a fucking shame and ridiculous.

You knew what I meant.

Not directly, but you made the all encompassing statement that monogamy is the problem in relationships. Since mine is monogamous, I don't see why it's unreasonable for me to think anything other than mine was included in that.

Anyway, monogamy is monogamy. I don't know why you're now saying you're ok with monogamy so long as the couple isn't religious.

I've never been against monogamy, if it works l, it works. But for the most part it does not work, unless you want to call it serial monogamy. As I pointed out earlier serial monogamy could include having two sexual partners within the same day.

Btw, I've never been married and have no desire to put that kind of restriction on myself or my partners. It would amount to setting myself up for failure and show me to be a jealous asshole.

To a large degree, Christian monogamy is about christianity being able to exert control.   It is not that that monogamy is by itself necessarily directly beneficial to the Christianity.  Imposing Monogamy accustoms people to the power of Christianity to regulate the most initiate aspects of people’s lives.

It is not any coincidence that abusive cults of all kind, including all domineering religions, insist on imposing its will on its menbers’ mating options and marriages.