(April 2, 2018 at 3:41 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: What you value, ought to be valued in truth, and truth requires proof, and the proof is a mystic nature, because it'

What I value is valued in truth and the truth is that those values reside within the brains of those who value their values.

Quote: You guys ask for proofs, and when clarified, you just mock around.

I took you seriously, I asked you to reformulate your argument and I'd reformulate my own in the same way, that was identical in structure to yours, so then it could be a learning experience for you, and you'd learn to actually take your argument further and have premises that were argued to from other premises rather than just being bare assertions.

But no, you ignored me. As soon as we start actually getting somewhere, you change the subject or start with bare assertions and preaching again. You wouldn't know proof if it slapped you in the face. Starting with premises that are bare assertions and refusing to back them up is the opposite of proof.

You're not interested in rationally exploring a subject with genuine intellectual honesty and curiosity, you just want us to accept your premises without thinking about them, and if we don't you get upset because you never reasoned to your own conclusions in the first place, you just blindly accepted it on faith and took it straight from scripture unthinkingly. You have an agenda, and you're only hear to push your agenda. You don't give a fuck about the truth. You only care about accepting what you already believe to be the truth, even if you're wrong. You're the humanoid version of an ostrich with its head in the sand.

(April 2, 2018 at 3:44 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(April 2, 2018 at 3:41 pm)Khemikal Wrote: You should be asking yourself this question.  I have "sight and light"..you defer to magic book in absence of either...and bullshit yourself about the demon locks on -my- heart.......

Created by chemicals with no aspect of non-materialism?

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(April 2, 2018 at 3:44 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Empathy is my primary driver for moral decision making on an individual level.  I don’t need a god to feel empathetic.  I don’t need a god to to tell me it’s wrong to hurt people.  I simply have no desire to hurt people.  And if I did hurt someone (and I have), I feel badly about it.  I try to make reparations as best I can, and not make the same mistakes going forward.  It’s not a mystery, and it’s no different than what you think your god is telling you to do.

What is empathy. Forget the word, describe it's reality.

Kemikal is right. Science proved that every tiny emotion you feel (even love) is triggered by chemicals in the brain; that's how drugs like LSD control people and control masses.

Adrenaline makes you a violent, uncontrollable prick, dopamine makes your reward center in the brain cycles; so all of us are "addicts" in one way or another.

There is no non-materialism in feeling the emotion.

As side note; this verse from the Quran implicitly discusses adrenaline rush:

Quote:Sura 48, The Quran:
( 26 ) When those who disbelieved had put into their hearts chauvinism - the chauvinism of the time of ignorance. But Allah sent down His tranquillity upon His Messenger and upon the believers and imposed upon them the word of righteousness, and they were more deserving of it and worthy of it. And ever is Allah, of all things, Knowing.

MysticKnight Wrote:Yet it's been proven time and time again.

That you don't even know what it means to have proven something is something that you have proven time and time again.

(April 2, 2018 at 4:13 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(April 2, 2018 at 3:44 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Created by chemicals with no aspect of non-materialism?

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What is empathy. Forget the word, describe it's reality.

Kemikal is right. Science proved that every tiny emotion you feel (even love) is triggered by chemicals in the brain; that's how drugs like LSD control people and control masses.

Adrenaline makes you a violent, uncontrollable prick, dopamine makes your reward center in the brain cycles; so all of us are "addicts" in one way or another.

There is no non-materialism in feeling the emotion.

If allah made us, that's just how he made us, eh?

Though, I've gotta say, if I wanted to control people I wouldn't give them lsd, lol. The CIA kind of fucked the pooch thinking that might work.

(April 2, 2018 at 4:19 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(April 2, 2018 at 4:13 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Kemikal is right. Science proved that every tiny emotion you feel (even love) is triggered by chemicals in the brain; that's how drugs like LSD control people and control masses.

Adrenaline makes you a violent, uncontrollable prick, dopamine makes your reward center in the brain cycles; so all of us are "addicts" in one way or another.

There is no non-materialism in feeling the emotion.

If allah made us, that's just how he made us, eh?

He creates what he wants. You can never criticize a God; he always knows better than you.

I want to try LSD. Instead of bombs; why don't you throw LSD gas at us?
Maybe it will solve the Middle East's problems.

(April 2, 2018 at 3:51 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(April 2, 2018 at 3:49 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Do you not know what empathy is?  Do you not have it?

I know what is

Then why are you asking me to explain it to you? 

Quote:but when I see a human, I see soul and I value not bunch of chemicals creating a program, but a living real soul.

That you believe in unparsimonious, unevidenced, silly things, is a ‘you’
problem, not a ‘me’ problem.

Quote:So I'm asking, you, define what it is in detail. And I want to see your assessment.

I am in no way obligated or inclined to explain something that you claim you already have an understanding of, lol.

Quote:The Quranic perspective is we are closer to being one soul than not, we are if we are one soul, so it's natural from that perspective to feel empathy and it's the truth.

Your book is an unevidenced claim, and so I don’t care what it says.

Quote:But just saying I am empathetic because it drives me is not very good reason for me.

That sounds like another ‘you’ problem.  I’m not sure what it’s got to do with the concept of empathy.

Agree to disagree...lol, but, at least it wouldn't really matter if you criticized a god.  Like the honey badger, it does what it wants, right or wrong. Don't give a fuck.

So it works one way. I have to answer questions, define and redefine, but if I ask you questions with your paradigm, you just simply assert it works and is consistent.

I been certain of God for a long enough time now. What was different in the past I thought Atheists were just lacking insight others had. But now I see it's actually hate of God for a lot, trying to escape his judgment and fearing the trials of assessing the path of submission, not willing to strive in his way.

I believed in the Deist past days, perhaps, it was just lack of comprehension, lack of sight, but now I see it's nothing but utter hate to best being and ungratefulness.

Every time we tip to close to proofs reaching the conclusion, everyone is  just trying to redirect the conversation and not see the implications.

It was your baby.  No sense bitching about it.  You made a thread that advertised arguments for a god and failed..spectacularly.  I could always explain moral realism to you if you wanted, but it's irrelevant to the existence of a god anyway.

Moral realism is true or not true regardless. -which is to say...that you could accept my moral schema and still believe in your ridiculous god. They aren't positions in competition with each other any more than one depends on the other.

(April 2, 2018 at 4:23 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(April 2, 2018 at 3:51 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I know what is

Then why are you asking me to explain it to you? 

Because is your escape route right now from acknowledging God's proof. You use the word empathy, to justify your hate and contempt of God's light.
You guys are really frustrating.  You won't even explain your stance in detail, because you don't want to investigate. You hide behind words. And just deny premises without thought.