(April 26, 2018 at 2:26 pm)G Alan Wrote: I sincerely apologize.  I honestly should've known that there are some on here that do try to "convert".  Thats not my intent and reasons at all.  I shouldnt have responded in this thread.  My reason for being on here is to figure out the reasoning and logic of an atheist.  In particular, a self proclaimed atheist who has admitedly "walked away" from the Christian faith.  When i say Christian i mean a Jesus following Bible believing Christian.   Some on this site do not like me on here at all and thats ok.  I will not post any comments at all from here on out.  I will only read some threads that i find interesting and helpful for answering my questions.  However , i will correspond only in the PM section.  So , again, my sincere apologies.  Thanks to those who have welcomed me.  And a big ol FYI.... this does not mean i can't stand the "heat" from any of you!  Or that i can't prove anything.  This is just called respect.
Thanks.
G.

In fairness, if you really want to understand us, then you need to stop asking questions like "Have you never actually thought about the truth?"  It's both a leading question (the implication is that you have the truth and we don't), and a probing one ("If they haven't, maybe they'll consider my religion!").  The bulk of us have been proselytized at so often that we see the little rhetorical tricks that come along with it, and, generally, react unfavorably to them.  Why?  Because they speak to a desire for conversion rather than mutual understanding; put another way, intentional or not, it's just another in a long line of instances where someone is lying for Jesus.

Ask smarter questions, like:

What was it about the bible you disagreed with?  Any specific book or passage?  Or was it a culmination of things within its pages?
Do you think the bible has any value as a moral guide?  Do you think any of its lessons are applicable to life today?
Is there anything about the faith that you miss?  Anything you still apply to your life today?

Coming into it with an attitude of "I have the truth, and I want to examine why atheists are so weird/deficient" like we're some sort of social science experiment for you to poke and prod at will only garner resentment from those of us who have dealt with that kind of thing before.

G Alan Wrote:I sincerely apologize.  I honestly should've known that there are some on here that do try to "convert".  Thats not my intent and reasons at all.  I shouldnt have responded in this thread.  My reason for being on here is to figure out the reasoning and logic of an atheist.  In particular, a self proclaimed atheist who has admitedly "walked away" from the Christian faith.  When i say Christian i mean a Jesus following Bible believing Christian.   Some on this site do not like me on here at all and thats ok.  I will not post any comments at all from here on out.  I will only read some threads that i find interesting and helpful for answering my questions.  However , i will correspond only in the PM section.  So , again, my sincere apologies.  Thanks to those who have welcomed me.  And a big ol FYI.... this does not mean i can't stand the "heat" from any of you!  Or that i can't prove anything.  This is just called respect.
Thanks.
G.

I respect you enough to treat you like anyone else who comes here, based on what you post.

But I'm not going to believe you can prove something no one else has been able to prove and that you haven't demonstrated that you can prove. If I did, that would be 'gullibility', not respect. I hope you eventually participate in the forum more fully again, and that you enjoy your break from doing so, however long it may be.

Please don't PM me something that should be discussed in open forum.

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Catholic_Lady Wrote:So the OP was wrong to say there's proof that the universe created itself?

Yes, the OP was wrong on that count. There is no proof on the origin of the universe before the initial expansion or if it even had an origin. The OP overreached, as several regulars pointed out.

(April 26, 2018 at 2:47 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

Catholic_Lady Wrote:What? I appreciate you answering my question. I was, in turn, answering yours and admitting that there is no proof that God created the universe. Not sure why you're being salty, but ok.

I'm occasionally salty. And you completely ignored the first question. And I did not ask for proof, I asked 'how'. You have no opinion on the matter at all?

Opinion wise? I believe God has always existed. I do not know how God created the first ever "thing" that eventually became the universe. Obviously the universe as we know it started with the Big Bang. Before that, I do not know, but my belief is He did as little as possible to get things going and from there allowed the natural, physical world to develop naturally.

Quote:And a big ol FYI.... this does not mean i can't stand the "heat" from any of you! Or that i can't prove anything.

Actually it does, pal.  You came here to preach.  You are far from the first to pull the humble routine.

(April 26, 2018 at 11:28 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: How did the universe create itself?

Still catching up.  Has anyone asked yet how God created Himself?  Or do Catholics allow that somethings just always exist and darned if we or anyone else really knows much about their origins.

(April 26, 2018 at 9:52 pm)Whateverist Wrote:

(April 26, 2018 at 11:28 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: How did the universe create itself?

Still catching up.  Has anyone asked yet how God created Himself?  Or do Catholics allow that somethings just always exist and darned if we or anyone else really knows much about their origins.

The belief is that God has always existed.

(April 26, 2018 at 10:12 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(April 26, 2018 at 9:52 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Still catching up.  Has anyone asked yet how God created Himself?  Or do Catholics allow that somethings just always exist and darned if we or anyone else really knows much about their origins.

The belief is that God has always existed.

Why does god exist?

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(April 26, 2018 at 11:28 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: How did the universe create itself?

If we couldn’t give you any kind of plausible answer to that question; if we just said, “I dunno”, would you consider the proposition less believable?

(April 26, 2018 at 10:12 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(April 26, 2018 at 9:52 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Still catching up.  Has anyone asked yet how God created Himself?  Or do Catholics allow that somethings just always exist and darned if we or anyone else really knows much about their origins.

The belief is that God has always existed.

Same thing with the universe/cosmos then. Why is this so hard to grasp?

(April 26, 2018 at 10:23 pm)Grandizer Wrote:

(April 26, 2018 at 10:12 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: The belief is that God has always existed.

Same thing with the universe/cosmos then. Why is this so hard to grasp?

I'm not so sure C_L has any problem with our saying just that.  Like many theists she may feel that the assumption that the cosmos has always existed shouldn't be considered more 'scientific', so long as we admit we dunno.

(April 26, 2018 at 10:23 pm)Grandizer Wrote:

(April 26, 2018 at 10:12 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: The belief is that God has always existed.

Same thing with the universe/cosmos then. Why is this so hard to grasp?

Where/when did I say this was hard to grasp?