The soviet union was Stalinism not Marxism
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
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Why millennials are drawn to socialism
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 RE: Why millennials are drawn to socialism
May 27, 2018 at 1:49 pm
(This post was last modified: May 27, 2018 at 1:55 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(May 27, 2018 at 1:06 pm)Edwardo Piet Wrote:(May 27, 2018 at 12:05 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: So an analogy to the contention that Karl Marx's philosophy wasn't put into practice and he shouldn’t be blame for it might be when some prophet claimed the cure to any sickness is to bash the patient’s skull in. But one one actually had the tools to do this so his followers settled for pummeling the patient’s faces instead. No, whatever other things Soviet system has it also has those traits of true Marxism that would make it uncompetitive against other systems hostile to it and thus make true Marxism fail just as Soviet communism has failed. Without being very true to Marxism, it already demonstrates who Marxism is uncompetitive. (May 27, 2018 at 1:28 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: The soviet union was Stalinism not Marxism The difference between Stalinism and Marxism is immaterial to the shared fundamental weaknesses that ensure neither are likely to survive in more or less peaceful coexistence with robust capislist alternatives over the long run, and both can only plausibly thrive by exploiting some transient opening to impose itself violently and quickly and then maintain itself through continued violence and suppression in excess of those required by their competitors.  RE: Why millennials are drawn to socialism
May 27, 2018 at 2:05 pm
(This post was last modified: May 27, 2018 at 2:06 pm by Amarok.)
Quote:The difference between Stalinism and Marxism is immaterial to the shared fundamental weaknesses that ensure neither are likely to survive in more or less peaceful coexistence with robust capislist alternatives over the long run, and both can only plausibly thrive by exploiting some transient opening to impose itself violently and quickly and then maintain itself through continued violence and suppression in excess of those required by their competitors.1. No it's quite material as they are polar opposite 2.Marxism can compete with capitalism and in the right circumstances win . Without violence or suppression. Quote:No, whatever other things Soviet system has it also has those traits of true Marxism that would make it uncompetitive against other systems hostile to it and thus make true Marxism fail just as Soviet communism has failed. Without being very true to Marxism, it already demonstrates who Marxism is uncompetitive.Nope Stalinism can't work . Marxism was not even tried . Marxism can work and can win .
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb  RE: Why millennials are drawn to socialism
May 27, 2018 at 2:07 pm
(This post was last modified: May 27, 2018 at 2:08 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(May 27, 2018 at 1:49 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: No, whatever other things Soviet system has it also has those traits of true Marxism that would make it uncompetitive against other systems hostile to it and thus make true Marxism fail just as Soviet communism has failed. Without being very true to Marxism, it already demonstrates who Marxism is uncompetitive. Like I said, you already accepted my point. Are you doubling back on it? Or just being controversial for the sake of it? I'm saying that one of the admissions you explicitly made was what my point actually was. Like you said "the Soviet system never implemented the idealized communist system envisioned by Marx". I agree. That was my point. Changed your mind?
Oh and Capitalism is probably the most violent economic systems ever .
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb RE: Why millennials are drawn to socialism
May 27, 2018 at 3:07 pm
(This post was last modified: May 27, 2018 at 3:09 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(May 27, 2018 at 2:09 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Oh and Capitalism is probably the most violent economic systems ever . Communism is at least competitive. (May 27, 2018 at 2:07 pm)Edwardo Piet Wrote:(May 27, 2018 at 1:49 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: No, whatever other things Soviet system has it also has those traits of true Marxism that would make it uncompetitive against other systems hostile to it and thus make true Marxism fail just as Soviet communism has failed. Without being very true to Marxism, it already demonstrates who Marxism is uncompetitive. Your point is because communism and Marxism are different, therefore Marxism should be given a chance even though communism has revealed its fatal flaws. My point is however they otherwise differ, they share the same fatal flaws. So failure of one illustrates the unworkability if the other. RE: Why millennials are drawn to socialism
May 27, 2018 at 3:37 pm
(This post was last modified: May 27, 2018 at 3:38 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(May 27, 2018 at 3:07 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: Your point is because communism and Marxism are different, therefore Marxism should be given a chance even though communism has revealed its fatal flaws. My point is however they otherwise differ, they share the same fatal flaws. So failure of one illustrates the unworkability if the other. Like you already admitted, Marx's philosophy as idealized was never put into practice. The conclusion from your admission? Well, because it was never put into practice there's no evidence of its flaws in practice. You made my point for me. 
I'm all for Marxism as long as I get to determine abilities and needs.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
Feelings of entitlement, and unrealistic explanations...are required for the perpetuation of our capitalist system.
Socialism, on the other hand, is the proper tool for necessity. To create a world in which no one starves or sleeps in a box. Its not as if having things like food or housing will stop people from wanting a big tv, or a dishwasher..ir feeling that they -should- have those things. If anything, it will free up time and capital to pursue them, while creating a healthier and more productive workforce.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
If Marx's philosophy was actually put into practice we'd have an equal system without all the greed and abuse of power of Capitalism.
Whether it's realistic or possible or practical is another matter. But to say that socialism is about feeling entitled is kind of silly when socialism is about having what you need instead of what you want... and it's about sharing rather than dog eat dog. |
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