(June 2, 2018 at 12:54 pm)Drich Wrote:

(May 31, 2018 at 2:59 pm)Alexmahone Wrote: I know this is a taboo topic but you made a choice when you clicked on this thread after reading the title...

I have encountered research by several reputed scientists that says that the mean IQ's of different races are different. They are (for the major races):

East Asians: 105
Whites: 99
South Asians / North Africans: 84
Africans: 70

Mixed races usually have IQ's that lie between the composite races. Blacks in the US have a higher mean (85) than Africans due to a combination of European ancestry and better nutrition.

(There are also scientists who claim that the mean IQ's of different races are exactly equal but fail to provide any evidence supporting this.)

My question: Does merely believing in the validity of such research make a person a racist? Is there any objection to this being taught at schools or universities? For the record, I belong to one of the intellectually inferior races, so I may be being a little slow...

Well yes especially after you have given the fact out the IQ difference between africans and north americans of african decent. there according to your own research is a 5% difference. which means it is not race but culture and or societal influences that determine IQ yet you persist on race as being the determining factor. again if race was what determined intelligence then society nor culture would have any bearing on intelligence,  yet there i a 5% difference in the members of the sae race but of a different community.

Quote:All recent reviews agree that some environmental factors that are unequally distributed between racial groups have been shown to affect intelligence in ways that could contribute to the test score gap. However, currently, the question is whether these factors can account for the entire gap between white and black test scores, or only part of it. One group of scholars, including Richard E. Nisbett, James R. Flynn, Joshua Aronson, Diane Halpern, William Dickens, Eric Turkheimer (2012) have argued that the environmental factors so far demonstrated are sufficient to account for the entire gap, Nicholas Mackintosh(2011) considers this a reasonable argument, but argues that probably it is impossible to ever know for sure; another group including Earl B. Hunt (2010), Arthur Jensen,[19] J. Philippe Rushton and Richard Lynn have argued that this is impossible. Jensen and Rushton consider that it may account for as little as 20% of the gap. Meanwhile, while Hunt considers this a vast overstatement, he nonetheless considers it likely that some portion of the gap will eventually be shown to be caused by genetic factors.

Wikipedia || Race and intelligence

(June 2, 2018 at 12:54 pm)Drich Wrote:

(May 31, 2018 at 2:59 pm)Alexmahone Wrote: I know this is a taboo topic but you made a choice when you clicked on this thread after reading the title...

I have encountered research by several reputed scientists that says that the mean IQ's of different races are different. They are (for the major races):

East Asians: 105
Whites: 99
South Asians / North Africans: 84
Africans: 70

Mixed races usually have IQ's that lie between the composite races. Blacks in the US have a higher mean (85) than Africans due to a combination of European ancestry and better nutrition.

(There are also scientists who claim that the mean IQ's of different races are exactly equal but fail to provide any evidence supporting this.)

My question: Does merely believing in the validity of such research make a person a racist? Is there any objection to this being taught at schools or universities? For the record, I belong to one of the intellectually inferior races, so I may be being a little slow...

Well yes especially after you have given the fact out the IQ difference between africans and north americans of african decent. there according to your own research is a 5% difference. which means it is not race but culture and or societal influences that determine IQ yet you persist on race as being the determining factor. again if race was what determined intelligence then society nor culture would have any bearing on intelligence,  yet there i a 5% difference in the members of the sae race but of a different community.

As I said, Blacks in the US have a higher mean (85) than Africans due to a combination of European ancestry (i.e. they're not exactly the same race) and better nutrition. It has nothing to do with culture, society or community.

Everyone agrees that both genetics and environment play roles in determining IQ's. If Africans in sub-Saharan Africa had the same nutrition as Whites, their IQ's would be a lot higher but probably still less than Whites'.

(June 2, 2018 at 1:48 pm)Alexmahone Wrote: As I said, Blacks in the US have a higher mean (85) than Africans due to a combination of European ancestry (i.e. they're not exactly the same race) and better nutrition. It has nothing to do with culture, society or community.

Everyone agrees that both genetics and environment play roles in determining IQ's. If Africans in sub-Saharan Africa had the same nutrition as Whites, their IQ's would be a lot higher but probably still less than Whites'.

Yeah, believe it or not, nutrition isn't the only nurture-related factor which can help raise intelligence. You want the short answer? Two words: Enriched Environment. Longer answer: Maybe the fact that a disproportionately high number of black people are still living in slums with education so shoddy that the school-to-prison pipeline becomes a thing may also be holding back black people from reaching the intelligence of white people. Question: do any of the scientists you're using for this "race"-IQ research do any studies where they look into the IQs of middle and upper class black people and compare them with those lower on the socioeconomic totem pole? Maybe if they do that and still find their intelligence is subpar, they could actually have a legitimate point. If not, they're missing a potentially illuminating piece of the puzzle.

(June 2, 2018 at 1:48 pm)Alexmahone Wrote:

(June 2, 2018 at 12:54 pm)Drich Wrote: Well yes especially after you have given the fact out the IQ difference between africans and north americans of african decent. there according to your own research is a 5% difference. which means it is not race but culture and or societal influences that determine IQ yet you persist on race as being the determining factor. again if race was what determined intelligence then society nor culture would have any bearing on intelligence,  yet there i a 5% difference in the members of the sae race but of a different community.

As I said, Blacks in the US have a higher mean (85) than Africans due to a combination of European ancestry (i.e. they're not exactly the same race) and better nutrition. It has nothing to do with culture, society or community.

Everyone agrees that both genetics and environment play roles in determining IQ's. If Africans in sub-Saharan Africa had the same nutrition as Whites, their IQ's would be a lot higher but probably still less than Whites'.

So...wait a minute, blacks in the us have a better iq score than blacks in africa..and your explanation is european ancestry?  Talk about reasserting your racial thesis in the face of countervailing data.

At this point, I can answer your OP Q. Yes, it;s racist, lol.

@Rev
Yeah, there have been studies just like that, and studies on mixed race parents both biological and adoptive within their socio-economic peer groups. Guess what they found? Nada. There probably is a genetic component to part of what IQ tests measure...but it;s not race based...if it were, adoptive children of mixed parent families would not score in the same range as biological children of mixed parent families...which they do. The situation in which you were raised appears to have a greater impact on standard IQ testing than which race our parents were....ignoring how difficult it is to establish which "race" our parents are in the first place.

I'm still wondering whether or not my mommy and daddy were white, lol, based on this criteria...and who gets to own my high or low test scores.

(June 2, 2018 at 3:47 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Question: do any of the scientists you're using for this "race"-IQ research do any studies where they look into the IQs of middle and upper class black people and compare them with those lower on the socioeconomic totem pole? Maybe if they do that and still find their intelligence is subpar, they could actually have a legitimate point. If not, they're missing a potentially illuminating piece of the puzzle.

I think they've compared blacks of high socio-economic status with whites of low socio-economic status and found that the whites still had higher mean IQ's.

(June 2, 2018 at 4:02 pm)Alexmahone Wrote:

(June 2, 2018 at 3:47 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Question: do any of the scientists you're using for this "race"-IQ research do any studies where they look into the IQs of middle and upper class black people and compare them with those lower on the socioeconomic totem pole? Maybe if they do that and still find their intelligence is subpar, they could actually have a legitimate point. If not, they're missing a potentially illuminating piece of the puzzle.

I think they've compared blacks of high socio-economic status with whites of low socio-economic status and found that the whites still had higher mean IQ's.

I'd like to see that.

(June 2, 2018 at 4:04 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote:

(June 2, 2018 at 4:02 pm)Alexmahone Wrote: I think they've compared blacks of high socio-economic status with whites of low socio-economic status and found that the whites still had higher mean IQ's.

I'd like to see that.

I googled it. http://thealternativehypothesis.org/inde...d-poverty/

Quote:Summary: In this post, I am going to look at how well differences in socio-economic status can explain racial IQ differences. First, we will see that affluent Blacks score lower than poorer Whites and Asians on tests of cognitive ability. Second, it will be seen that the Black/White IQ gap is highest among the rich and lowest among the poor. Third, it will be shown that the Black/White SES gap has fallen dramatically over the last 100 years while the Black/White IQ gap has not. And finally, it will be seen that most of the Black/White IQ gap remains when holding SES constant. Over all, it will be concluded that SES probably explains only a small portion of the Black/White IQ gap.

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More interesting would be to compare the mean IQ's of men and women. Reports that they happen to be exactly equal are probably not credible. After all, men have larger brains even after adjusting for body size.

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(June 2, 2018 at 4:01 pm)Khemikal Wrote: At this point, I can answer your OP Q.  Yes, it;s racist, lol.

I guess it would be if I wasn't South Asian myself. It's good to be exonerated by the low mean IQ of your own race.

(June 2, 2018 at 5:43 pm)Alexmahone Wrote:

(June 2, 2018 at 4:01 pm)Khemikal Wrote: At this point, I can answer your OP Q.  Yes, it;s racist, lol.

I guess it would be if I wasn't South Asian myself. It's good to be exonerated by the low mean IQ of your own race.

And, of course, there is also data that points to the malleability of IQ:

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/6/...se-critics

(June 2, 2018 at 7:45 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(June 2, 2018 at 5:43 pm)Alexmahone Wrote: I guess it would be if I wasn't South Asian myself. It's good to be exonerated by the low mean IQ of your own race.

That doesn't even make any sense. East Asians are intellectually superior to Whites.