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Shell B · June 22, 2018 at 9:07 pm

(June 22, 2018 at 5:56 pm)Tizheruk Wrote:
Quote:Is anyone else tired of the BS from both sides?
I'm equally tired of Centrists.Because they can be just as full of shit .

Example?

Shell B · June 22, 2018 at 9:13 pm

No one is excusing Trump, dude. Saying a little boy shouldn't have to deal with the fucking lunacy of half-wit adults is not defending Trump. I can't stand that cocksucker. I have absolutely nothing against his little boy, a fucking child. That's what we're discussing. Is Barron fair game? No, he's not, and if people think we can make him fair game, you're going to see people who normally wouldn't siding with the Trump family. Is that what we want? An actually sympathetic picture of this family? Because, as it stands, I feel pretty bad for Melania. She has legitimate reasons to be worried for her kid. I would personally want to murder Fonda if Barron was mine. I don't want to feel bad for her. People like him put the rest of us in a bad situation. I don't care if people think we need to fight dirty because the "other" side does. That's horseshit.

**LadyForCamus** · (This post was last modified: June 22, 2018 at 9:17 pm by LadyForCamus.)

(June 22, 2018 at 7:34 pm)A Theist Wrote:
(June 22, 2018 at 6:39 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: So much arguing going on that has nothing to do with Barron. Weird, since the comment was directed toward him, specifically.
It was good to see you forum mothers involved, though. Disagree and argue on anything you like, but attack another mother's child, look out for the Mama Bears. Partisanship goes out the window. Strong union between mothers.

Yeah, this one was a no-brainer for me. I am sincerely shocked by how many people are defending it. I don’t understand this, “worse things are happening to innocent children because of Trump, therefore fuck Trump’s innocent child. We don’t care about that child.” Could you imagine if, say, Rosanne Barr had said something similar about one of the Obama girls, for any reason at all? We (the left) would be having a holy shit fit, and reject any attempt at justifying it, regardless of context. Moral high ground, yada yada. Taking babies away from their parents unnecessarily sickens me. This border shit has kept me up at night for several weeks. But the Fonda business is just more harm added to an already enormous pile, IMO. I don’t really care if it’s only one grain of sand added to a whole mountain. Don’t fucking hurt kids, and don’t make excuses for people who do.

Amarok · (This post was last modified: June 22, 2018 at 9:23 pm by Amarok.)

(June 22, 2018 at 8:56 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:
(June 22, 2018 at 5:56 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: I'm equally tired of Centrists.Because they can be just as full of shit .

It’s not “centrist” to be disgusted by someone targeting a twelve year old with vile rhetoric about being molestated. The word you’re looking for is “human”. I don’t think anyone bothered to address ShellB’s very good point that we don’t know what this boy has been through in his young life, or how such comments could be deeply harmful to his developing psyche. I’ll ask for a third time, since Khem was the only one willing to address it: is it fair that a twelve year old boy should have to read a comment like that about himself on social media? Is that in the best interest of the child’s mental, and emotional wellbeing? If you think it isn’t, but refuse to condem the comment and the person who made it, then you’re a hypocrite. “Only kids from ‘our side’ deserve my empathy. Only kids from ‘our side’ deserve to be protected” is what I’m hearing.

Roads comments were on being sick of both sides .I was saying centrists can also be jerks . Lastly why are you asking me this question .Iv'e taken pains to say no few then 3 TIMES NOW i don't support the comment. LET ME REPEAT THAT SO I DON"T HAVE TO AGAIN (hopefully ) I . DO .NOT .SUPPORT . THE .COMMENT !!!!

(June 22, 2018 at 9:07 pm)Shell B Wrote:
(June 22, 2018 at 5:56 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: I'm equally tired of Centrists.Because they can be just as full of shit .
Example?

Are asserting the idea that no self proclaimed centrist has ever said or done anything wrong ever .

(June 22, 2018 at 9:13 pm)Shell B Wrote: No one is excusing Trump, dude. Saying a little boy shouldn't have to deal with the fucking lunacy of half-wit adults is not defending Trump. I can't stand that cocksucker. I have absolutely nothing against his little boy, a fucking child. That's what we're discussing. Is Barron fair game? No, he's not, and if people think we can make him fair game, you're going to see people who normally wouldn't siding with the Trump family. Is that what we want? An actually sympathetic picture of this family? Because, as it stands, I feel pretty bad for Melania. She has legitimate reasons to be worried for her kid. I would personally want to murder Fonda if Barron was mine. I don't want to feel bad for her. People like him put the rest of us in a bad situation. I don't care if people think we need to fight dirty because the "other" side does. That's horseshit.

I'm asking ahole if he feels just as offended by Trump saying kill terrorists families as he is Fonda's comment . That was solely directed at him as i clearly pointed to in the comment .

**LadyForCamus** · (This post was last modified: June 22, 2018 at 9:24 pm by LadyForCamus.)

(June 22, 2018 at 9:13 pm)Shell B Wrote: No one is excusing Trump, dude. Saying a little boy shouldn't have to deal with the fucking lunacy of half-wit adults is not defending Trump. I can't stand that cocksucker. I have absolutely nothing against his little boy, a fucking child. That's what we're discussing. Is Barron fair game? No, he's not, and if people think we can make him fair game, you're going to see people who normally wouldn't siding with the Trump family. Is that what we want? An actually sympathetic picture of this family? Because, as it stands, I feel pretty bad for Melania. She has legitimate reasons to be worried for her kid. I would personally want to murder Fonda if Barron was mine. I don't want to feel bad for her. People like him put the rest of us in a bad situation. I don't care if people think we need to fight dirty because the "other" side does. That's horseshit.

Can’t really accuse people of moral inferiority if you’re willing to stoop to their level to get that point across, can you? 😏 “You are a monster for ripping kids away from their parents! These are innocent babies! Have you no conscience?! You’re such a monster that your innocent child should be in a cage with pedophiles!”

Wait, what?!

Shell B · June 22, 2018 at 9:23 pm

You said they are full of shit, not crude mean-spirited or awful. How are they full of shit? Are you saying they proclaim they've never done anything bad? I'm sure some centrists do that because they are human. However, they are, by definition, not part of this left/right war. In general, they take each issue as it stands, instead of siding with a side just because it's their side. They don't pretend to be on the only side of moral right.

I would be left wing if a lot of left wing people didn't make me wildly uncomfortable with their aggression, which for me is saying something. Same thing with feminism. The sheer hate dripping off some of them turns me off. I can't be on these teams.

(June 22, 2018 at 9:15 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: I'm asking ahole if he feels just as offended by Trump saying kill terrorists families as he is Fonda's comment . That was solely directed at him as i clearly pointed to in the comment .

I was responding to Brian. Big Grin

(June 22, 2018 at 9:22 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:
(June 22, 2018 at 9:13 pm)Shell B Wrote: No one is excusing Trump, dude. Saying a little boy shouldn't have to deal with the fucking lunacy of half-wit adults is not defending Trump. I can't stand that cocksucker. I have absolutely nothing against his little boy, a fucking child. That's what we're discussing. Is Barron fair game? No, he's not, and if people think we can make him fair game, you're going to see people who normally wouldn't siding with the Trump family. Is that what we want? An actually sympathetic picture of this family? Because, as it stands, I feel pretty bad for Melania. She has legitimate reasons to be worried for her kid. I would personally want to murder Fonda if Barron was mine. I don't want to feel bad for her. People like him put the rest of us in a bad situation. I don't care if people think we need to fight dirty because the "other" side does. That's horseshit.

Can’t really accuse people of moral inferiority if you’re willing to stoop to their level to get that point across, can you? “You are a monster for ripping kids away from their parents! These are innocent babies! Have you no conscience?! You’re such a monster that your innocent child should be in a cage with pedophiles!”

Wait, what?!

Right?! This is crazy.

FlyingNarwhal · June 22, 2018 at 9:32 pm

(June 22, 2018 at 1:21 pm)Divinity Wrote:
(June 22, 2018 at 12:08 pm)FlyingNarwhal Wrote: He's twelve years old, and your defending someone that said he should be put in a cage and raped. This is some serious delusion that's coming out from people supporting this level of vitriol.

You're defending someone who not just said they'd lock up kids, but ACTUALLY fucking did it. So get the fuck out of here with this stupid shit, kid.

I'm not defending Trump, I'm defending Barron. That's what the title of this thread is, and that is what I've been discussing. I'll list all of my posts in this thread below, take a look and tell me where I'm defending Trump or his immigration policy, please. And that brings up the only other point that I've brought up in this thread, which is that the blind hatred of Trump from the left is going to alienate independent/centrist/swing voters in the mid terms and in 2020. Because of you're hatred for Trump, you've literally put words in my mouth that I never said. Here's my posts, tell me where I'm backing Trump:

FlyingNarwhal Wrote:Nothing will come of this. Colbert says Trump's mouth is Putin's cock holster, Samantha Bee calls Ivanka a cunt, and now this. No real consequences for any of them. I know a lot of people hate Trump, but can you imagine if anyone said this pre Trump? I'm not even talking just Obama, ANY president and their family before Trump. Their careers would be eviscerated. Remember what happened to the Dixie Chicks?

FlyingNarwhal Wrote:I think the office he holds deserves at least a modicum of respect. On top of that of the three examples I brought up only Colbert's insult was meant for Trump in particular. The other two were directed at his kids. You can make the argument that Ivanka is at least involved in politicking but Barron is a 12 year old. There's never been this much vitriol directed at a President's family.

I also don't think it does much good for Democrats either. I think the blatant hate pushes away your more centrist and non political voters, as well as also serving as a reason to continue to fire up the Republican base. I think you see that reflected in his approval ratings going up. If it keeps up I don't think the mid terms are going to look as good as the Democrats are thinking they'll be and 2020 will be a nightmare for them.

FlyingNarwhal Wrote:The system deserves disrespect? What Democracy? Voting? Because that is the system that put Trump into office. And I think a big reason for that happening, including the hidden surge of voters not seen in pre election polls, is the disrespect of that system aka the people that voted for Trump. If you think continuing down that same path is going to work well come mid terms and 2020 I would strongly urge you to reconsider.

And again I'll say, the comments that came from Samantha Bee and Peter Fonda were not directed at Trump, the office, or "the system." They were directed at his children. Where in the past has it been remotely appropriate for any previous president's family to receive that kind of rampant hatred with no consequences?

FlyingNarwhal Wrote:-The NRA ad is bad because it involves Obama's daughters, but it is not a direct attack on them. They are used for cheap political points which I don't like either, but the NRA didn't call them cunts.

-Fox News didn't attack Obama's daughters, there was a comment section in one of their articles that got way out of control. Fox News shut down the comment section in response. The things a lot of the people said were super fucked up, but we're talking anonymous internet trolls, not established media personalities like I chose as examples. If we're going to bring this discussion down to what random people are saying on the internet we may as well nuke the conversation.

-Interestingly enough I looked into the Ann Coulter thing, and while she brings up going after Obama's daughters it's a hyperbolic response which she clarifies at the end of her statement. It also should be noted that she doesn't even directly attack the children, she casually mentions it as a response and then dismisses it immediately afterwards.

Quote:Ann Coulter: No, that's right. And they (liberals) do go after the children. I mean, I just say going after the children, generally, to be off limits. It has not been off limits for Republicans. Though, conservatives have take the Obama children off limits, so, you know, maybe it's time to start imitating liberals in another way and go after the Obama children.

But, I think it's just more of going after the family members and the children, and by the way that has been done grotesquely and viciously over the years, by the left. Including, frequently outing gay children of right-wingers. You know, if you get involved in political dialogue you're not supposed to be putting your family at risk. You are the one who is out there making the arguments, take the shots at the public figure. Don't start attacking their children.

I'm seriously asking though, who else is calling the president's daughter a cunt and saying she should fuck her father? Or suggesting that a 12 year old child of the president should get raped to teach the president a lesson? This is a whole new level of hatred. Can you find me anything to this level where the person making the statement wasn't fired or faced harsh consequences?

FlyingNarwhal Wrote:First off I'm not a Republican, I'm a registered Independent. I was a couple of months shy of being 18 to vote in 2008, but was a strong supporter of Obama. In 2012 I voted for Obama. In this past election I would have voted for Bernie Sanders had the DNC not royally fucked him. I voted down ticket this past election, because I didn't like either candidate. Thanks for baselessly calling me a racist and classless by the way, just another reason why over the past few years I've started distancing myself with left leaning political ideology.

I'm not just saying that the vitriol on the left is pushing away centrist voters because I'm a conservative, I'm saying it because I AM a centrist that IS being pushed away by the vitriol from the by the left. I'm not sure if you've ever heard the term Uncanny Valley? but it describes a sort of revulsion that people feel when something looks human but isn't quite human. I've had similar feelings towards all of the hatred directed from every corner of the media that it just sets off alarm bells in my head that it's not genuine. When I see almost every single mainstream news outlet scream about something trump did, no matter how insignificant, it gives credibility to his claims of fake news.

I'm just saying, things need to calm down on the left because if they don't they are going to continue to lose control of political power and alienate the majority of voters.

FlyingNarwhal Wrote:See ya in 2020 then.

FlyingNarwhal Wrote:He's twelve years old, and your defending someone that said he should be put in a cage and raped. This is some serious delusion that's coming out from people supporting this level of vitriol.

**LadyForCamus** · (This post was last modified: June 22, 2018 at 9:34 pm by LadyForCamus.)

(June 21, 2018 at 9:58 pm)*Deidre* Wrote: The difference between what he SAID and what is actually happening to kids ...is that his words are only words.

But my point is, from a moral standpoint, it shouldn’t be a competition of who causes the least harm to a child. A person who cares about children wouldn’t even enter into that game. Words, especially words like that, can most certainly hurt a pre-teen like Barron. Especially someone like Barron. It doesn’t matter if he suffered less than border children. Any and All child suffering, regardless of degree, is BAD.

Amarok · (This post was last modified: June 22, 2018 at 9:50 pm by Amarok.)

Quote:You said they are full of shit, not crude mean-spirited or awful. How are they full of shit? Are you saying they proclaim they've never done anything bad? I'm sure some centrists do that because they are human. However, they are, by definition, not part of this left/right war. In general, they take each issue as it stands, instead of siding with a side just because it's their side. They don't pretend to be on the only side of moral right.

I would be left wing if a lot of left wing people didn't make me wildly uncomfortable with their aggression, which for me is saying something. Same thing with feminism. The sheer hate dripping off some of them turns me off. I can't be on these teams.

1. Yes they are full of shit when they act as if they are above everything when they act in a similar fashion

2.No they are part of the conflict . They like to pretend they are above .But then reality asserts itself

3.And no they all to often indulge in a new ideology of radical centrism

4. Then by choosing no team you have chosen a team.

Quote:I was responding to Brian.

Fair enough

**LadyForCamus** · June 22, 2018 at 9:38 pm

(June 22, 2018 at 9:23 pm)Shell B Wrote: You said they are full of shit, not crude mean-spirited or awful. How are they full of shit? Are you saying they proclaim they've never done anything bad? I'm sure some centrists do that because they are human. However, they are, by definition, not part of this left/right war. In general, they take each issue as it stands, instead of siding with a side just because it's their side. They don't pretend to be on the only side of moral right.

I would be left wing if a lot of left wing people didn't make me wildly uncomfortable with their aggression, which for me is saying something. Same thing with feminism. The sheer hate dripping off some of them turns me off. I can't be on these teams.

(June 22, 2018 at 9:15 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: I'm asking ahole if he feels just as offended by Trump saying kill terrorists families as he is Fonda's comment . That was solely directed at him as i clearly pointed to in the comment .

I was responding to Brian.

(June 22, 2018 at 9:22 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Can’t really accuse people of moral inferiority if you’re willing to stoop to their level to get that point across, can you? “You are a monster for ripping kids away from their parents! These are innocent babies! Have you no conscience?! You’re such a monster that your innocent child should be in a cage with pedophiles!”

Wait, what?!

Right?! This is crazy.

This shit is bananas!

B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

(Wow, typing that half-drunk was no simple task)

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