(September 27, 2018 at 10:58 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Right?  Fuck em...and shiv em if they don't agree!  My daughters are princesses...."step on your neck" kind of princesses!

Yeah, my daughter is a "step on your neck" scientist. Fuck princesses.

But I get what you mean.

-Teresa

I remember getting home from a long run (when I still lived with the wrinklies and I was training for a marathon).

My clothes were totally soaked through and all I wanted was a shower. My Catholic auntie was visiting and gave me a shovked look and said something like "a young lady shouldn't sweat".

My response was then it's a good thing I'm not a fucking lady, then (despite the many attempts by my mother).

(September 27, 2018 at 11:08 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: I remember getting home from a long run (when I still lived with the wrinklies and I was training for a marathon).

My clothes were totally soaked through and all I wanted was a shower.  My Catholic auntie was visiting and gave me a shovked look and said something like "a young lady shouldn't sweat".

My response was then it's a good thing I'm not a fucking lady, then (despite the many attempts by my mother).

Ah, gotta love those attitudes about women's normal bodily functions being offensive. And the same people think men's similar, normal bodily functions are...normal.

-Teresa

(September 27, 2018 at 11:24 pm)Tres Leches Wrote:

(September 27, 2018 at 11:08 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: I remember getting home from a long run (when I still lived with the wrinklies and I was training for a marathon).

My clothes were totally soaked through and all I wanted was a shower.  My Catholic auntie was visiting and gave me a shovked look and said something like "a young lady shouldn't sweat".

My response was then it's a good thing I'm not a fucking lady, then (despite the many attempts by my mother).

Ah, gotta love those attitudes about women's normal bodily functions being offensive. And the same people think men's similar, normal bodily functions are...normal.

-Teresa

Or sexy.

My mother's side of the family is old fashioned(read: outdated).

It looks like the research is based entirely on surveys.

Weirdly it's a survey filled out by men reporting how many sexual assaults they're making over time.

There's parts of the research results that are obvious and I wouldn't have thought needed spending money on researching.
Men who reported themselves making less sexual assaults reported themselves feeling less hostility towards women and having beliefs that supported rape.

Is it science based on self reporting your feelings? And relying on college students to accurately self report the sexual assaults they committed?

It mentions pornography use in a list of other things I guess have been scientifically concluded to be toxic masculinity, I thought I saw a study once showing the exact opposite, that pornography use correlates to less sexual assault.

I don't think anyone is suggesting toxic masculinity is the only factor that can lead to sexual misconduct, only that it is one of the most important, and for what it contributes, totally unnecessary and without value. To argue that other things lead to sexual misconduct without recognizing that toxic masculinity more consistently does so, is a stronger predictive factor, and serves no real function in society is simply to introduce a red herring.

(September 28, 2018 at 9:13 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: I don't think anyone is suggesting toxic masculinity is the only factor that can lead to sexual misconduct, only that it is one of the most important, and for what it contributes, totally unnecessary and without value.  To argue that other things lead to sexual misconduct without recognizing that toxic masculinity more consistently does so, is a stronger predictive factor, and serves no real function in society is simply to introduce a red herring.

I don't know if you're replying to me but I'm not arguing about how much this thing people call toxic masculinity causes sexual misconduct.  

I'm just pointing out how unscientific the whole thing seems when the title is "Science says....."

It's a supposedly scientific conclusion based on surveys, in addition to that surveys where people are reporting on their own sexual misconduct.  The accuracy of that seems dependent on how honest the general public is, how good their memory is even when at parties getting drunk, their ability to judge their own sexual conduct.

Ontop of that more surveys based on their feelings.

I'd be interested to see how they define "Anti social behavior" how they measure it and how it links to sexual assault.  Also how they define sexual assault.  Where I live if you tug someone's shirt sleeve, even lightly, that's an assault.  Are they counting touching someone's hips to start dancing with them without verbal consent as being sexual assault?

Other than all that I don't really understand what the study was necessary for.  Like scientific research was needed to find out anti social guys who have a low opinion of women and think that sexual assault is ok are more likely to sexually assault a woman than the average drunk guy at a bar.

(September 28, 2018 at 10:55 am)paulpablo Wrote: I'm just pointing out how unscientific the whole thing seems when the title is "Science says....."

It's a supposedly scientific conclusion based on surveys, in addition to that surveys where people are reporting on their own sexual misconduct.  The accuracy of that seems dependent on how honest the general public is, how good their memory is even when at parties getting drunk, their ability to judge their own sexual conduct.

Yeah, I wanted to be careful to not state it that way in my OP, despite the headline of the article I linked.

There are many clever ways that pollsters have found to overcome general human dishonesty.

Take a look at the linked study, they were measuring incidents of sexual aggression -as they determined them-...do you think they asked the subjects "How many times did you grope a stranger this year?"

(September 28, 2018 at 10:55 am)paulpablo Wrote:

(September 28, 2018 at 9:13 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: I don't think anyone is suggesting toxic masculinity is the only factor that can lead to sexual misconduct, only that it is one of the most important, and for what it contributes, totally unnecessary and without value.  To argue that other things lead to sexual misconduct without recognizing that toxic masculinity more consistently does so, is a stronger predictive factor, and serves no real function in society is simply to introduce a red herring.

I don't know if you're replying to me but I'm not arguing about how much this thing people call toxic masculinity causes sexual misconduct.  

I was replying to Rev. Rye's post concerning there being other factors which can contribute to the occurrence of sexual assault and sexual misconduct.