New members might need to be told that the OP is a nutter, in the literal sense of the word.

(September 27, 2018 at 12:35 pm)Pandæmonium Wrote: New members might need to be told that the OP is a nutter, in the literal sense of the word.

No need, that's pretty obvious.

(September 27, 2018 at 11:41 am)Kit Wrote:

(September 27, 2018 at 11:39 am)Little Rik Wrote: One exciting thing in life is that mysteries are something that produce excitement and desire to know and God's creation must be the most important mystery to me at least.

See, that's your problem.

Mysteries are fine so long as one is actively attempting to solve them.  Simply providing an out of thin air answer like "god" is not solving anything.

Oh, well if you know that I do nothing to solve any mystery then you must have the power to read my mind.

Have you ever considered to work as a mind reader?
You could become rich.  

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(September 27, 2018 at 12:35 pm)Pandæmonium Wrote: New members might need to be told that the OP is a nutter, in the literal sense of the word.

That is mostly bizarre Pan.  

In the past also those who said that the earth was not the center of the universe were described as nuts.
Is not something pleasant to go against the main stream but at the end it will pay off.  

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(September 27, 2018 at 10:20 am)unfogged Wrote:

(September 27, 2018 at 9:22 am)Little Rik Wrote: Why on earth science should say that vibration are alive?

I'm not aware that it does.

In fact it doesn't.
It would be like saying that you are alive.
That is obvious so why should science say the obvious?
But let us see what characterize the alive so to speak.

..........animated, lively, full of life, alert, active, energetic, vigorous, spry, sprightly, vital, vibrant, vivacious, buoyant, exuberant, ebullient, zestful, spirited, enthusiastic, eager, bouncy, bubbly, perky, sparkling..............

That is why we can say that vibrations are alive.  

Quote:Obviously everything is alive in this universe.
Even matter that doesn't show any life to the naked eye is full of energy.
Being energy-consciousness the two sides of the same sheet that means that everything carry some form of consciousness.

Quote:Consciousness requires energy but that doesn't make them equivalent.

As consciousness require energy also energy require consciousness.

As you will never see a body go around without a brain-mind you also will never see energy without consciousness.  

Quote:Consciousness is something alive so everything is alive.
Nothing is dead.

Quote:Things that are alive may have consciousness but "consciousness" is not itself alive.

Consciousness generate thoughts and thoughts generate action.
Consciousness is at the very top as the General in charge.
Have you ever see a General or chief of army that is not alive?  

Quote:Even Einstein said that matter is energy and where there is energy there is consciousness at different level of awareness.

Quote:Citation required.

https://www.universetoday.com/116615/how...-the-same/

(September 27, 2018 at 10:28 am)unfogged Wrote:

(September 27, 2018 at 9:46 am)Little Rik Wrote: I have already gone several times through the fact that as far as the body is alive the consciousness is there with the body-brain.
That doesn't mean that once the body die also the consciousness goes to the dogs.
Would you die when your vehicle die?

Why should you?
The body is a vehicle not the real you.
Would you say that your car is you?

That is one of the most ridiculous analogies I've ever heard.  Any property that is dependent on functioning hardware is going to cease when the hardware fails.  A better analogy would be a program running on a computer.  When the computer shuts down the program stops, it doesn't float off to run on some supernatural CPU in the sky.

The computer has been programmed by a mind so obviously it will comply with the information that such a mind put in it therefore has absolutely nothing to do with the point we are talking about.  

Quote:Evidence come only once you get knowledge.
And knowledge is not something that come easily.
First you got to be interested in something.
After that you got to learn and learn.

Quote:You are saying that to acquire knowledge you must examine the evidence.  I agree with that.  The evidence must come first.

Not at all unfog.
Spirituality goes outside the physical arena.
The evidence in spirituality is already within but it is like a nugget of gold hidden under ground and we spiritualists call it subconscious mind.
Knowledge is the work necessary to reach this treasure within.

Quote:Atheism is not the best way to start something as important as the real knowledge.
That kind of knowledge that goes outside the borders of physicality.  

Quote:Word salad does not convey anything useful.

The problem with atheists is that they look for solutions outside for something that is inside.  

(September 28, 2018 at 11:21 am)Little Rik Wrote: Knowledge is the work necessary to reach this treasure within.

(September 28, 2018 at 11:21 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(September 27, 2018 at 10:28 am)unfogged Wrote: That is one of the most ridiculous analogies I've ever heard.  Any property that is dependent on functioning hardware is going to cease when the hardware fails.  A better analogy would be a program running on a computer.  When the computer shuts down the program stops, it doesn't float off to run on some supernatural CPU in the sky.

The computer has been programmed by a mind so obviously it will comply with the information that such a mind put in it therefore has absolutely nothing to do with the point we are talking about.  

No, my car dying had nothing to do with the point.  As far as we can determine our consciousness "runs" on our physical brains in much the same way that programs run on computer hardware.  Shut down the computer and the program is no longer running.  Shut down the brain and our consciousness is no longer running.  We have zero evidence that the consciousness is preserved in any way so there is no rational reason to believe that it is.  All anybody has ever offered is wishful thinking.

Quote:

Quote:Evidence come only once you get knowledge.
And knowledge is not something that come easily.
First you got to be interested in something.
After that you got to learn and learn.

Quote:You are saying that to acquire knowledge you must examine the evidence.  I agree with that.  The evidence must come first.

Not at all unfog.
Spirituality goes outside the physical arena.
The evidence in spirituality is already within but it is like a nugget of gold hidden under ground and we spiritualists call it subconscious mind.

Spirituality is a meaningless term until you can provide a consistent definition for it and show that it exists.  Every person seems to define it differently and therefore no useful discussions can be had because there is no common ground.  As far as I can tell, nobody who uses the word has any clue what it is they are talking about.

Quote:Knowledge is the work necessary to reach this treasure within.

That makes no sense at all.  I have no idea what definition you are using for "knowledge" because none that I know fit in that sentence.  Knowledge is the result of learning.

Quote:

Quote:Atheism is not the best way to start something as important as the real knowledge.
That kind of knowledge that goes outside the borders of physicality.  

Quote:Word salad does not convey anything useful.

The problem with atheists is that they look for solutions outside for something that is inside.  

You do not appear to understand your audience at all.  Skeptics like myself look for solutions that are testable and demonstrably real.  Atheism is the conclusion I have reached based on the investigation of claims for various gods.  When you can define whatever it is you are talking about and provide evidence for it then there may be a reason for me to change my mind.  Until then your claims are indistinguishable from delusions and I will continue to disregard them as useless.

(September 22, 2018 at 9:45 am)Little Rik Wrote: Atheists in general rely on science but science contradict them almost at every step especially when it say that something must come from something else so the universe must come from something yet most atheists deny that the universe must come from a creator.

Who else then?
Father Christmas?

Isn't this bizarre?    

Do they fully believe in science or they only believe in part usually when it meet their agenda?  

Science also doesn't say that with the physical death we (our consciousness or our I) die as well yet atheists think otherwise.
And when science ever said that the consciousness is a product of the brain?

Each and every belief that atheists carry in their mind doesn't find any evidence in science yet most atheists glorify science as the royal jelly of knowledge.

Why?

WHY?    

Got a good laugh at your explanation of science. Thanks!

I managed to travel outside our reality last night, it was pretty amazing. I'll tell you how you do it:

1) Touch something around you, and focus on whatever image your mind creates to represent how it feels.

2) Imagine a hole being ripped into the image.

3) Project your consciousness through the hole.

4) When you come out the other side, you can see the master reality.

5) What do you see? If it is mostly green and golden, then you've actually escaped our reality and you're viewing the structure it is built on. If you see anything else, you've done it wrong and you're just imaging that you've escaped.

"Mostly bizarre" should be Little Rik's middle name.

(September 28, 2018 at 11:40 am)unfogged Wrote:

(September 28, 2018 at 11:21 am)Little Rik Wrote: The computer has been programmed by a mind so obviously it will comply with the information that such a mind put in it therefore has absolutely nothing to do with the point we are talking about.  

No, my car dying had nothing to do with the point.  As far as we can determine our consciousness "runs" on our physical brains in much the same way that programs run on computer hardware.  Shut down the computer and the program is no longer running.  Shut down the brain and our consciousness is no longer running.  We have zero evidence that the consciousness is preserved in any way so there is no rational reason to believe that it is.  All anybody has ever offered is wishful thinking.

Wrong again unfog.

There is zero evidence that the consciousness die when the body die and there is zero evidence that the two are inseparable for ever.
As you are connected to your vehicle when you drive you also are free to terminate this connection when you wish.
Some people commit suicide because they want to terminate this connection before natural death occur but most people terminate this connection when their body had enough and die.
However if you are interested in what make sense then you should understand that the death of the consciousness does not make any sense.
After million years that evolution take us from lower form of life to what we are now a sudden stop and death of our evolution before we reach the goal of life does not make any sense.
Human evolution can not possibly be the end of total evolution.
There is still a lot to learn and a lot to do to reach peace of mind and total happiness.
Only fools think that what we have achieve so far is enough.  

Quote:Not at all unfog.
Spirituality goes outside the physical arena.
The evidence in spirituality is already within but it is like a nugget of gold hidden under ground and we spiritualists call it subconscious mind.

Quote:Spirituality is a meaningless term until you can provide a consistent definition for it and show that it exists.  Every person seems to define it differently and therefore no useful discussions can be had because there is no common ground.  As far as I can tell, nobody who uses the word has any clue what it is they are talking about.

I am not really interested what other people think of spirituality.
To me the word simply means to unearth or bring to light what lies in the subconscious mind.

You yourself must have noticed that after thinking and thinking in many cases the solution to your problem pop up.
Where you think it pop up from other than from your subconscious mind.
Spirituality is an intelligent way to allow the coming of these solution to emerge a lot lot easier than struggle all the time beside solutions also means peace of mind and bliss.    

Quote:Knowledge is the work necessary to reach this treasure within.

Quote:That makes no sense at all.  I have no idea what definition you are using for "knowledge" because none that I know fit in that sentence.  Knowledge is the result of learning.

Before to learn you need a system of knowledge unless you are a cave man that discover the fire by pure chance.
Yoga is a knowledge that allow you to learn.  

Quote:The problem with atheists is that they look for solutions outside for something that is inside.  

Quote:You do not appear to understand your audience at all.  Skeptics like myself look for solutions that are testable and demonstrably real.  Atheism is the conclusion I have reached based on the investigation of claims for various gods.  When you can define whatever it is you are talking about and provide evidence for it then there may be a reason for me to change my mind.  Until then your claims are indistinguishable from delusions and I will continue to disregard them as useless.

Yours is the way of the cave man that after ages and ages discover the fire by pure chance.

I on the other hand put my trust in a real teacher that has been there and done that in order to arrive to the goal of life.
In this way I benefit from his knowledge so I don't have to struggle to find my way to the finish line of total evolution.  

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(September 28, 2018 at 12:49 pm)robvalue Wrote: I managed to travel outside our reality last night, it was pretty amazing. I'll tell you how you do it:

1) Touch something around you, and focus on whatever image your mind creates to represent how it feels.

2) Imagine a hole being ripped into the image.

3) Project your consciousness through the hole.

4) When you come out the other side, you can see the master reality.

5) What do you see? If it is mostly green and golden, then you've actually escaped our reality and you're viewing the structure it is built on. If you see anything else, you've done it wrong and you're just imaging that you've escaped.

Gee, I would not have thought that it was so so simple.  

Silly me that I passed a lifetime doing the opposite thing.