What I find disturbing is how one of the boys ( Kian ) father defends his son's participation.
He suggests his own son would be " chucking stones at buses and giving people grief " if he wasn't engaging in the activity.
He also claims the other boy was only crying because he was losing the fight!
How either parents think the venue is suitable for their sons' activity beggars belief.
There again, maybe I'm past it and this is modern parenting!

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(September 22, 2011 at 7:28 pm)Tiberius Wrote: I'm not sure where I stand on this, possibly because when I was younger (I'm talking age 6+) I was part of a Judo club at school, and I fought in various matches. We didn't have any safety gear other than floor mats, but it was a very fun experience. As far as I can tell from the article, there are no punches or kicks, which means then chances of someone getting hurt and quite minimal.

I also have no problem with beauty pageants.

Beauty pageants are sick. Paedophile heaven in the case of very young " contestants ".

(September 22, 2011 at 7:54 pm)bozo Wrote: Beauty pageants are sick. Paedophile heaven in the case of very young " contestants ".

So I assume you are making the assertion that there is something "wrong" with paedophilia?

(September 23, 2011 at 2:17 pm)Tiberius Wrote:

(September 22, 2011 at 7:54 pm)bozo Wrote: Beauty pageants are sick. Paedophile heaven in the case of very young " contestants ".

So I assume you are making the assertion that there is something "wrong" with paedophilia?

I am saying that the sexualisation of children at a very young age, which is what these things are about, is definitely wrong.
That images of these sexed-up infants find their way onto the computer files of paedophiles, who sexully desire them , would be considered " wrong " by very many people indeed. But not you it seems.

(September 23, 2011 at 2:41 pm)bozo Wrote: I am saying that the sexualisation of children at a very young age, which is what these things are about, is definitely wrong.

Perhaps, although I'd distinguish it from child porn in various ways. For one, children consent to beauty pageants, even when their parents are the ones pushing for it. I think that the sexualization of children has quite a lot to do with our modern culture that accepts sex as something we can be open about, rather than something we should be quiet about.

Quote:That images of these sexed-up infants find their way onto the computer files of paedophiles, who sexully desire them , would be considered " wrong " by very many people indeed. But not you it seems.

I think a lot of people might be more secure if they knew that paedophiles are getting off on images of child beauty pageants rather than creating / downloading child pornography, or going so far as to actually commit child molestation. I certainly am.

(September 23, 2011 at 2:54 pm)Tiberius Wrote:

(September 23, 2011 at 2:41 pm)bozo Wrote: I am saying that the sexualisation of children at a very young age, which is what these things are about, is definitely wrong.

Perhaps, although I'd distinguish it from child porn in various ways. For one, children consent to beauty pageants, even when their parents are the ones pushing for it. I think that the sexualization of children has quite a lot to do with our modern culture that accepts sex as something we can be open about, rather than something we should be quiet about.

Quote:That images of these sexed-up infants find their way onto the computer files of paedophiles, who sexully desire them , would be considered " wrong " by very many people indeed. But not you it seems.

I think a lot of people might be more secure if they knew that paedophiles are getting off on images of child beauty pageants rather than creating / downloading child pornography, or going so far as to actually commit child molestation. I certainly am.

Children do not enter these things without parental pressure and parents sexing them up. The kids couldn't appear as they do without guidance. Sexualisation of young children may well be a result of our modernday attitude to sex....it doesn't make it right.
I regard pageant pictures of kids just as offensive and distasteful as child pornography. I don't relish the idea of paedos getting off on either. They are as likely to molest a child from either picture stream.

(September 23, 2011 at 3:12 pm)bozo Wrote: I don't relish the idea of paedos getting off on either. They are as likely to molest a child from either picture stream.

Your evidence for this would be...what? Just a gut feeling?

Do you accept that comparing paedophiles to child molesters is the same as comparing homosexuals to rapists? There are a lot of (uninformed) people out there that think homosexuals want to rape them, when in fact homosexuals simply have sexual desires just like any other person. The same is true for paedophiles; they can't control who they are attracted to, and I'll bet a large percentage of them do not act on their sexual desires, since they know it is undesirable. Some paedophiles are child molesters, but it is a fallacy to equate the two, or to claim that all paedophiles will at some point molest children.

Is paedophillia not wrong in the way that homosexuality is 'not wrong' Tiberius? (are you saying?)

(September 23, 2011 at 3:54 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Is paedophillia not wrong in the way that homosexuality is 'not wrong' Tiberius? (are you saying?)

Please excuse me if I explain myself with the utmost clarity; I don't want people putting words in my mouth.

I'm saying that if we accept that sexual attraction is something that is ultimately uncontrollable (the cause being genetic / environment / both), then we must logically accept that paedophilia is no more "wrong" than homosexuality.

A distinction must be made (although I note that it is not always made in the media) between being attracted to prepubescent children, and engaging in sexual activity with prepubescent children. In the context of this argument, I wish to define "paedophile" by the former; that is, a person who is attracted to prepubescent children.

A paedophile may, at some point, engage in sexual activity with prepubescent children, but it is not a necessary condition of being a paedophile. It is, however, a necessary condition of being a child molester, child sex offender, or child sex abuser (whichever term you wish to use).

It is noted in numerous studies (the results of which can be found at the Wikipedia article on Pedophilia) that not all child molesters are paedophiles, and vice versa.

(September 23, 2011 at 3:42 pm)Tiberius Wrote:

(September 23, 2011 at 3:12 pm)bozo Wrote: I don't relish the idea of paedos getting off on either. They are as likely to molest a child from either picture stream.

Your evidence for this would be...what? Just a gut feeling?

Do you accept that comparing paedophiles to child molesters is the same as comparing homosexuals to rapists? There are a lot of (uninformed) people out there that think homosexuals want to rape them, when in fact homosexuals simply have sexual desires just like any other person. The same is true for paedophiles; they can't control who they are attracted to, and I'll bet a large percentage of them do not act on their sexual desires, since they know it is undesirable. Some paedophiles are child molesters, but it is a fallacy to equate the two, or to claim that all paedophiles will at some point molest children.

I work in the justice system and have some experience of what material paedophiles collect. They sexually desire children. For some, looking at children is enough, for others , having sex is preferable.
I'm not going even further off-thread to compare paedos with gays.
I started this by observing that young children, made-up like adults, in beauty pageants , constitutes paedophile heaven. I stick with that.

Quote:I work in the justice system and have some experience of what material paedophiles collect.

I accept your word.However,your argument is a strawman. Your personal experience is not evidence to falsify the argument that not all paedophiles are child molestors. We do not put people in gaol for being sexually attracted to children. We put them in gaol for ACTING on that attraction.


I too loathe child beauty contest. I think they are not not about the poor children,but about the fuckwitted parents who should have their children removed from their custody. In my opinion child beauty pageants are a form of child abuse. They sexualise children and expose them to a vicious adult world in which winning is everything. It disgusts me. Every time I hear the term,I think of that poor little Jo Beth Ramsay who was murdered.