PRJA93 has a point. After all, how many of us would let it slide if someone said, I know I have no evidence to provide for the existence of the fairies that dance naked in my garden at midnight, but I still believe in them and their cavorting beneath moonbeams.

No delusion is above reproach, no matter how kind the individual is.

(October 12, 2018 at 5:42 pm)Kit Wrote: PRJA93 has a point.  After all, how many of us would let it slide if someone said, I know I have no evidence to provide for the existence of the fairies that dance naked in my garden at midnight, but I still believe in them and their cavorting beneath moonbeams.

Correct. And I only replied that last time because she was being insulting toward me. Why is she getting a pass for being insulting and yet I'm called out for being "pushy," when I only wrote a few responses to her. I'd hardly call that pushy anyway. And even if I was, this is a thread for evidence of god on Atheist Forums. LOL Wow.

(October 12, 2018 at 5:17 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Let her have her belief. AFAIK, she's not trying to insult anyone's intelligence and she's being completely honest by admitting there's no evidence for the God she believes in. Why this pushiness?

OP's question was asking if (thesits) have evidence for G-d, and I answered, "No, I have no evidence. I don't really need that for me to believe, but I get that you might need it for you to believe. I believe what makes sense to me." For this, I am intellectually dishonest.

It's not a zero-sum game for me. I don't take the position that I have to be totally right and you have to be totally wrong. It's really not that fucking serious anyway. If there is a G-d, then fine: nothing changes. If there isn't, then fine: nothing changes. To me, it's like changing one's mind about what color they think is prettiest. Do we really need to make an argument for the case of blue over red? Just like the color you like and make some effort to respect people who like a different color.

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(October 12, 2018 at 5:42 pm)Kit Wrote: PRJA93 has a point.  After all, how many of us would let it slide if someone said, I know I have no evidence to provide for the existence of the fairies that dance naked in my garden at midnight, but I still believe in them and their cavorting beneath moonbeams.

No delusion is above reproach, no matter how kind the individual is.

So you can't just be friends with someone who thinks a little differently than you do?

Le sigh. I have no issue in general with watching a theist crash and burn. Hell, I will even cheer. But this appears to be different.

MJ seems to be experiencing a mental meltdown.

Is it real? If so, then one should be cautious of one's posts.

Is it faked? If so, then one should be cautious of one's posts even moreso.

Of all the "true bleevers" on here the only one I feel any sympathy for is MJ because he genuinely seems to be adrift in a mental sea of uncertainty.

(October 12, 2018 at 5:46 pm)Aliza Wrote:

(October 12, 2018 at 5:17 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Let her have her belief. AFAIK, she's not trying to insult anyone's intelligence and she's being completely honest by admitting there's no evidence for the God she believes in. Why this pushiness?

OP's question was asking if (thesits) have evidence for G-d, and I answered, "No, I have no evidence. I don't really need that for me to believe, but I get that you might need it for you to believe. I believe what makes sense to me." For this, I am intellectually dishonest.

It's not a zero-sum game for me. I don't take the position that I have to be totally right and you have to be totally wrong. It's really not that fucking serious anyway. If there is a G-d, then fine: nothing changes. If there isn't, then fine: nothing changes. To me, it's like changing one's mind about what color they think is prettiest. Do we really need to make an argument for the case of blue over red? Just like the color you like and make some effort to respect people who like a different color.

And I think when you reply, as a theist, in a thread about evidence for god, you should expect what you say could be challenged, and you shouldn't insult people when they disagree with you. The thing is, it ISN'T a big deal to me. Because, well, I'm not the one insulting others who simply disagree with me. I think you should really examine why you're even on this forum in the first place if you have that big of an issue with people disagreeing with your beliefs/ideas.

(October 12, 2018 at 5:46 pm)Aliza Wrote: So you can't just be friends with someone who thinks a little differently than you do?

If I knew you in real life, possibly. Not on the forum, however.

(October 12, 2018 at 5:51 pm)Kit Wrote:

(October 12, 2018 at 5:46 pm)Aliza Wrote: So you can't just be friends with someone who thinks a little differently than you do?

If I knew you in real life, possibly.  Not on the forum, however.

Okay. Well thank you for your honesty, then.

(October 12, 2018 at 5:51 pm)Aliza Wrote:

(October 12, 2018 at 5:51 pm)Kit Wrote: If I knew you in real life, possibly.  Not on the forum, however.

Okay. Well thank you for your honesty, then.

I would tend to disagree with Kit here. I can still be friends with someone online who I disagree with about something. But such a person would either have to be willing to say, "This is a subject we don't discuss" or such a person would have to be willing to debate and discuss the topic whenever, if ever, it arises. You seem to be taking this incredibly personally. I don't have an issue with you as a person, I was just calling out a facet of your statement. If it's such a problem with you, I'll let it go. You're honestly dragging this out more than anyone else is.

(October 12, 2018 at 5:38 pm)PRJA93 Wrote:

(October 12, 2018 at 5:17 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Let her have her belief. AFAIK, she's not trying to insult anyone's intelligence and she's being completely honest by admitting there's no evidence for the God she believes in. Why this pushiness?

No one has to "let her" have her belief. She can believe whatever she wants, however she wants. It doesn't require me or anyone else, for that matter, to "let her" do it. And pushiness? No, not really. I'm just pointing out the intellectual dishonesty. Pushy would be, oh I don't know, maybe knocking on people's doors to try and convince them to become atheists. THAT'D be pushy. How strange to for you to even chime in like that, considering she was the one insulting me. This is, in fact, a thread about evidence for god, on a forum called "Atheist Forum." Are you surprised a theist is being challenged?

Maybe I'm missing something here then. Because, from what I can read, you were the one who started the insult by saying she's being intellectually dishonest for merely believing in a god?

Yes, this is an atheist forum, and theists, and anyone else for that matter participating in a debate thread, should be challenged if they express views that warrant that challenge. But if the theist's crime is that she expresses belief in a god while acknowledging that there is no evidence for their god, I personally don't see a need to challenge in that case.

I mean, fine, if you want to challenge her, that's your choice. But I guess what prompted me to reply to you was your charge that she was being intellectually dishonest when she came off as being quite the opposite, and that bugged me for a reason. Because I wish more theists were as honest as she is about their views.

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(October 12, 2018 at 5:42 pm)Kit Wrote: PRJA93 has a point.  After all, how many of us would let it slide if someone said, I know I have no evidence to provide for the existence of the fairies that dance naked in my garden at midnight, but I still believe in them and their cavorting beneath moonbeams.

No delusion is above reproach, no matter how kind the individual is.

Well, I consider there to be a world of difference between belief in limited fairies in some garden and a supposedly unlimited, vaguely-defined ultimate being referred to as God. I don't consider theism to be delusional perse.

(October 12, 2018 at 5:42 pm)Kit Wrote: PRJA93 has a point.  After all, how many of us would let it slide if someone said, I know I have no evidence to provide for the existence of the fairies that dance naked in my garden at midnight, but I still believe in them and their cavorting beneath moonbeams.

No delusion is above reproach, no matter how kind the individual is.

I'd want to be friends with Mr./Ms./Mrs./whatever moonbeam fairy because their world is so much more interesting than mine and their belief isn't appreciably harmful.

While I find god belief silly, I'm not going to chastise any theist who admits how illogical it is. Why would I? I'm not a heathen proselytizer. My goal in life isn't to bring new people into the un-flock.

Moreover, in my experience, this kind of theist is mostly benign. Their belief is usually a source of personal comfort rather than the foundation of their entire worldview. These generally aren't the people who point at the bible in order to justify heinous shit.