(November 12, 2018 at 12:32 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 11:37 am)Khemikal Wrote: @Ev
Are you under the impression that you and CDF believe the same things..or...what?

We both know that a creator God exists, we both believe that the soul exists separately from the body, we both believe in reward/redemption and we both believe in eternal life.

You do both claim to know quite a lot about what cannot be verified by an impartial observer, and a little of that seems to agree alright. But I think CDF believes he has arguments which should persuade an impartial, fair-minded person to adopt his beliefs. I wonder if you share that belief?

Another possible rift in your alliance is that I believe CDF feels himself to be compelled by the great commission to spread the word of the bible. You don't share that do you, 'Rena?

lol, ad populum authorities with "science" attached to it did, secular misguidance!

(November 12, 2018 at 12:42 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 12:38 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: If you can't do it, then it's not a choice.  End of story.

So what you are both saying is that you could not make the choice to believe in God even if you wanted to. Is that correct? If so, what makes you so convinced that this entire universe and all conscious life could just come to be from nothing, out of thin air?

What makes you so convinced it didn’t?

(November 12, 2018 at 12:40 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 12:38 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: If you can't do it, then it's not a choice.  End of story.

She doesn't recognize it but leaving certainty for irrational doubt and conjecture, can always happen to a human. She is not free of that danger, only Prophets and the chosen guides, and chosen ladies like Sarah and May are.

We all can let go of holding on to God otherwise, we aren't free from swerving and turning aside to misguidance and doors that lead astray!

---

(November 12, 2018 at 12:39 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: The purpose is to make potentially thinking people into better unthinking sheep to be fleeced.

True.. all religions have that purpose except that religion from God which people are trying to equate at the same level of those man made sheep herding astray leading clergy worshiping religions.

Religions have also done an enormous amount of good in this world, in literally thousands of different ways.

Whateverist, always keeping us real! I am enjoying this thread!

(November 12, 2018 at 12:04 pm)Everena Wrote: I welcome your ideas and thoughts. I am only voicing my own opinion based on what I've experienced with atheists through the years. I used to think that some very bad people being part of religions had turned people away from God. Later I considered that perhaps the suffering in the world had turned people away from God. The more time I spent discussing God with the atheists I know personally and with the atheists I have debated with online, the more I realized something very different. Atheism is almost a personality type.

Nah. Maybe with some. But not everybody.

I am a skeptic. I tend to question things which are not founded on solid evidence. That is the beginning, middle, and end of my atheism. As a human being, I have a problem with religion. But as an atheist, I have a problem with unfounded claims.

People's personal experiences are not a good foundation for believing in something. Let's consider the Hitler Youth. A lot of kids got involved in the Hitler Youth, and (if you read about people's memories about such things) you will see it was an intensely positive experience for a great many of them. All it really was was "German Boy Scouts" with a swastika slapped on it for advertising purposes. The problem is this: when they weren't camping, singing songs, and paying special attention to the member's positive development, the Hitler Youth fed the youngsters propaganda about Jews and other enemies of the Nazi party.

For you to argue that your positive experience with religion signifies that that religious claims are objectively true is to argue that some kid's experience with the Hitler Youth makes the correspondent claims of THAT organization true. It doesn't.

PS: I hope you realize that I'm not equating believers with Nazis. I'm simply picking an organization whose claims are demonstrably false in order to make a point about how positive experience ought not influence belief.

(November 12, 2018 at 12:44 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 12:40 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: She doesn't recognize it but leaving certainty for irrational doubt and conjecture, can always happen to a human. She is not free of that danger, only Prophets and the chosen guides, and chosen ladies like Sarah and May are.

We all can let go of holding on to God otherwise, we aren't free from swerving and turning aside to misguidance and doors that lead astray!

---

True.. all religions have that purpose except that religion from God which people are trying to equate at the same level of those man made sheep herding astray leading clergy worshiping religions.

Religions have also done an enormous amount of good in this world, in literally thousands of different ways.

Nope, they took good of humans and made all funnelled to ego worshiping scholars that divide and conquer for their egos.  All good actions are useless if we disobey God to obey humans. They made people's actions in vain except those who value God above all else but find no clarification regarding that.

God may pardon most humans for that because most are heedless, but they didn't worship God sincerely, and valued scholars on par with him.

These religions have not benefited humans at all, but instead have confused people with regards to the true religion, all for egos of humans!

(November 12, 2018 at 12:42 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 12, 2018 at 12:38 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: If you can't do it, then it's not a choice.  End of story.

So what you are both saying is that you could not make the choice to believe in God even if you wanted to. Is that correct? If so, what makes you so convinced that this entire universe and all conscious life could just come to be from nothing, out of thin air?

Wait, I thought that was what you and CDF believed, that God just whipped up some life forms out of thin air.  I think the position of those on the other side is life is just interesting chemistry.

I've said it in this thread before. It's just amazing that everything just has to have a creator EXCEPT, conveniently, your imaginary friend.

And something from nothing is a religious concept, not necessarily a scientific one. Your god and poofing the universe into existence are prime examples.

(November 12, 2018 at 12:42 pm)Everena Wrote: So what you are both saying is that you could not make the choice to believe in God even if you wanted to. Is that correct? If so, what makes you so convinced that this entire universe and all conscious life could just come to be from nothing, out of thin air?

Are you familiar with the difference between honestly stating I don't know, until such a time that an empirically proven answer can be provided, versus the readily automatic answer of filling in the gaps of knowledge with god did it?