There was a question I asked a while back which I believe neither Everena nor CDF ever responded to. So I'll ask again:

Is there anything we have observed in this world that we would expect only if creationism is true?

Depends on how you define "true". 

(November 20, 2018 at 9:39 pm)Gwaithmir Wrote:

(November 20, 2018 at 9:32 pm)CDF47 Wrote: I believe the Bible is the truth and is what we do know about the infinite.  It is described as paradise.

Really? Do you believe that people can rise from the dead? Do you believe that the earth is flat? Do you believe in talking animals? Do you believe that slavery is a noble enterprise? Do you believe that boys' genitals should be ritually mutilated? Do you believe that witches and non-believers should be stoned to death?

I'm going to take a shot at this one too. Yes, people are eternal beings with souls, no the earth is not flat, talking animals is a metaphor and probably one you should think about for a really really long time. No one thinks slavery is a noble enterprise, but we cannot go back in time and change what people were doing then, now can we? I would leave the boys genitals thing up to boys to decide. And only the really annoying ones (kidding) No.

(November 20, 2018 at 9:42 pm)CDF47 Wrote:

(November 20, 2018 at 9:39 pm)Gwaithmir Wrote: Really? Do you believe that people can rise from the dead? Do you believe that the earth is flat? Do you believe in talking animals? Do you believe that slavery is a noble enterprise? Do you believe that boys' genitals should be ritually mutilated? Do you believe that witches and non-believers should be stoned to death?

I believe Jesus rose from the dead on the third day.  I believe the earth is round.   I believe miracles, such as raising the dead, were performed by Jesus.  I believe the genital cutting is for a covenant between the Lord and Israel.  I believe in the laws as stated here in the United States which I follow.  There are no stonings of witches and non-believers.

What historical evidence do you have to support the allegation that Jesus was crucified rose from the dead?

Why do you believe the earth is round when the Bible clearly indicates that the earth is flat?

By what mechanism did Jesus raise anyone from the dead?

I didn't ask what the ritual genital mutilation was for, I asked if you think it was a moral or immoral practice.

Do you believe that slavery is a noble enterprise?

I have news for you. Witches and non-believers are being stoned to death  and murdered based upon Biblical principles in Africa even now; i.e., https://www.africanexponent.com/post/is-...-real-3155

How you feel about the laws in the US is irrelevant. I asked you whether or not certain Biblical laws/practices are moral or immoral.

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(November 20, 2018 at 9:51 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 20, 2018 at 9:10 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: I explicitly said rational objections, not the moronic and illogical crap you've been spewing since you got here.  Do you have any of those?

If you can't make rational sense of my arguments, then there is probably no hope for you. You should just worship Stephen Hawking and Larry Krausse and Dick Dawkins instead of God like you already do, and spend the rest of your life believing inanimate objects can create universes.

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(November 20, 2018 at 9:25 pm)Gwaithmir Wrote: Prove it!

I can't, but it is in you.

That's right, you can't prove it, so your claims are bogus. You're also arguing from assertion, which is a logical fallacy.

(November 20, 2018 at 9:56 pm)Grandizer Wrote: There was a question I asked a while back which I believe neither Everena nor CDF ever responded to. So I'll ask again:

Is there anything we have observed in this world that we would expect only if creationism is true?

Consciousness, food, all living organisms even existing, comfortable weather patterns, a sun, a moon, water, correct placement of our planet, gravity, air to breathe and also plants and trees to make more clean air, a sex drive, a will to live, emotions, intelligence, an immune system, medicines, electricity, oil, fire, coal, metals, tatste buds, vision, hearing,smelling, feeling, orgasms, other pleasures, pain, legs. arms, an attraction to the human body, and a whole bunch more.

(November 20, 2018 at 10:00 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 20, 2018 at 9:39 pm)Gwaithmir Wrote: Really? Do you believe that people can rise from the dead? Do you believe that the earth is flat? Do you believe in talking animals? Do you believe that slavery is a noble enterprise? Do you believe that boys' genitals should be ritually mutilated? Do you believe that witches and non-believers should be stoned to death?

I'm going to take a shot at this one too. Yes, people are eternal beings with souls, no the earth is not flat, talking animals is a metaphor and probably one you should think about for a really really long time. No one thinks slavery is a noble enterprise, but we cannot go back in time and change what people were doing then, now can we? I would leave the boys genitals thing up to boys to decide. And only the really annoying ones (kidding) No.

Unless you are a Bible believer, your answers are not relevant to the Biblical issues I am addressing.

(November 20, 2018 at 9:51 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 20, 2018 at 9:10 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: I explicitly said rational objections, not the moronic and illogical crap you've been spewing since you got here.  Do you have any of those?

If you can't make rational sense of my arguments, then there is probably no hope for you. You should just worship Stephen Hawking and Larry Krausse and Dick Dawkins instead of God like you already do, and spend the rest of your life believing inanimate objects can create universes.

If making rational sense of your arguments is the bar, then there's no hope for anybody. But seriously, just summarize, what is wrong with Lawrence Krauss' hypotheses if space-time already exists? None of this deflection, troll.

(November 20, 2018 at 10:02 pm)Gwaithmir Wrote: I have news for you. Witches and non-believers are being stoned to death  and murdered based upon Biblical principles in Africa even now; i.e., [url=https://www.africanexponent.com/post/is-witchcraft-real-3155]https://www.africanexponent.com/post/is-witchcraft-real-3155[/ur

Everena: They are not based on Biblical principles! The ten commandments of God state not to kill. Evil people will use literally any excuse to be evil because they are horrible, freakish, lowlifes. That is no reflection on the 99.9% of Christians who are good people, and who have done more of the good in this world than any other group on earth!

(November 20, 2018 at 9:51 pm)Everena Wrote: I can't, but it is in you.

(November 20, 2018 at 10:02 pm)Gwaithmir Wrote: That's right, you can't prove it, so your claims are bogus. You're also arguing from assertion, which is a logical fallacy.

Everena: And you claiming that my claims are bogus just because I can't prove them to you is a logical fallacy.

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(November 20, 2018 at 10:10 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(November 20, 2018 at 9:51 pm)Everena Wrote: If you can't make rational sense of my arguments, then there is probably no hope for you. You should just worship Stephen Hawking and Larry Krausse and Dick Dawkins instead of God like you already do, and spend the rest of your life believing inanimate objects can create universes.

If making rational sense of your arguments is the bar, then there's no hope for anybody.  But seriously, just summarize, what is wrong with Lawrence Krauss' hypotheses if space-time already exists?  None of this deflection, troll.

If you expect me to bore myself reading some morons hypothesis that I already know ahead of time is worthless crap, think again. Read Biocentrism by Robert Lanza and tell me what's wrong with his theory (not saying I agree with it)

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(November 20, 2018 at 10:10 pm)Gwaithmir Wrote:

(November 20, 2018 at 10:00 pm)Everena Wrote: I'm going to take a shot at this one too. Yes, people are eternal beings with souls, no the earth is not flat, talking animals is a metaphor and probably one you should think about for a really really long time. No one thinks slavery is a noble enterprise, but we cannot go back in time and change what people were doing then, now can we? I would leave the boys genitals thing up to boys to decide. And only the really annoying ones (kidding) No.

Unless you are a Bible believer, your answers are not relevant to the Biblical issues I am addressing.

But I like arguing for Christianity. It's a great religion.

Quote:If you can't make rational sense of my arguments, then there is probably no hope for you. You should just worship Stephen Hawking and Larry Krausse and Dick Dawkins instead of God like you already do, and spend the rest of your life believing inanimate objects can create universes.

No the reason is their is no rationality in her arguments to get and conflating science with her religious bullocks. How sad  

(November 20, 2018 at 10:09 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 20, 2018 at 9:56 pm)Grandizer Wrote: There was a question I asked a while back which I believe neither Everena nor CDF ever responded to. So I'll ask again:

Is there anything we have observed in this world that we would expect only if creationism is true?

Consciousness, food, all living organisms even existing, comfortable weather patterns, a sun, a moon, water, correct placement of our planet, gravity, air to breathe and also plants and trees to make more clean air, a sex drive, a will to live, emotions, intelligence, an immune system, medicines, electricity, oil, fire, coal, metals, tatste buds, vision, hearing,smelling, feeling, orgasms, other pleasures, pain, legs. arms, an attraction to the human body, and a whole bunch more.

Most, if not all, of what you listed are expected under evolution/naturalism.

Consciousness is a tricky thing to grasp exactly, so you need to be clear on what we have observed about consciousness that creationism alone could have expected. The capacities to think and rationalize and reflect and all that have been linked to the nervous system in our bodies, and the correlations have been experimentally demonstrated.