Quote:I've given you all this information already. If you have chosen to ignore it, that is your problem. I'm done.

LMFAO
You never gave us ANY of this information.
You're a fucking lair.

Thanks for proving that again.
The LEAST you should be able to do is tell us who cooked up the "received" woo-woo.

Quantum computers are not magical. Even assuming we had them, so what? Congrats, now you can compute NP complete problems in quadratic time. Have fun breaking the NSA's cryptography. Quantum computers don't have God's phone number and don't connect you to the rest of the universe. For that last bit of silliness Penrose and Hameroff invoke quantum gravitation, a subject that has eluded the very best physicists to date. There is no working theory of quantum gravitation, so even the real scientific hypotheses that underpin Orch-OR are unproven.

On the other hand, we can disprove it fairly simply. Aside from MRIs being lethal, we should also have to worry about those pesky gravity waves that LIGO only managed to detect a couple of years ago. We get a few descent sized events, detectable by LIGO and similar facilities, every few months. Smaller events below the current levels of detection should occur daily. All of these should render you unconscious at the very best.

Happily, we don't fear fridge magnets or gravity waves because that isn't how our brains work.

(November 24, 2018 at 8:51 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote:

Quote:You cannot have information without intelligence by the way. AGAIN, not possible.

You didn't strictly define "information", and what the boundary is, exactly, where intelligence is not needed, thus your assertion is dismissed as hand-waving.
Still waiting .... you have many questions to answer.

Intelligence is required for any information to exist at all. There is no boundary. There is a God Bucky. There is a God.

(November 24, 2018 at 9:10 pm)Everena Wrote:

(November 24, 2018 at 8:51 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: You didn't strictly define "information", and what the boundary is, exactly, where intelligence is not needed, thus your assertion is dismissed as hand-waving.
Still waiting .... you have many questions to answer.

Intelligence is required for any information to exist at all. There is no boundary. There is a God Bucky. There is a God.

If there wasn't a Gawd your thumb drive wouldn't work.

Quote:Intelligence is required for any information to exist at all. There is no boundary. There is a God Bucky. There is a God.

The moon is made of green cheese.

Actually we know that is not true.
You still have not defined what is and what is not "information".
Complexity arises spontaneously in this universe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory
Proof by assertion is a fallacy.
You still have not told us who originated "received", and who is studying (by name) Penrose's theory at MIT.
You still have not addressed the fact I raised last night, that if Penrose's theory were true, people undergoing an MRI would lose consciousness, and have no memory of the event.
Neither of those things are true.

(November 24, 2018 at 9:09 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: Quantum computers are not magical. Even assuming we had them, so what? Congrats, now you can compute NP complete problems in quadratic time. Have fun breaking the NSA's cryptography. Quantum computers don't have God's phone number and don't connect you to the rest of the universe. For that last bit of silliness Penrose and Hameroff invoke quantum gravitation, a subject that has eluded the very best physicists to date. There is no working theory of quantum gravitation, so even the real scientific hypotheses that underpin Orch-OR are unproven.

On the other hand, we can disprove it fairly simply. Aside from MRIs being lethal, we should also have to worry about those pesky gravity waves that LIGO only managed to detect a couple of years ago. We get a few descent sized events, detectable by LIGO and similar facilities, every few months. Smaller events below the current levels of detection should occur daily. All of these should render you unconscious at the very best.

Happily, we don't fear fridge magnets or gravity waves because that isn't how our brains work.

Penrose is an award winning physicist who is considered a genius by the entire science community. Hameroff is a doctor who became interested in consciousness by reading Penrose's book and studying microtubules which he found fascinating. Yes their hypotheses was highly controversial from day one because it is more accomodating to spiritual approaches to consciousness. Like all other scientists and doctors in the world, they are not perfect. Because of them we know that there are quantum vibrations occuring in the microtubules of our brain and this has been proven and corroborated by three different groups of scientists. What ever you decide to make of it from there is up to you unless they prove something new. Currently there are no other theories of consciousness that have been proven.

---

(November 24, 2018 at 9:16 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote:

Quote:Intelligence is required for any information to exist at all. There is no boundary. There is a God Bucky. There is a God.

The moon is made of green cheese.

Actually we know that is not true.
You still have not defined what is and what is not "information".
Complexity arises spontaneously in this universe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory
Proof by assertion is a fallacy.
You still have not told us who originated "received", and who is studying (by name) Penrose's theory at MIT.
You still have not addressed the fact I raised last night, that if Penrose's theory were true, people undergoing an MRI would lose consciousness, and have no memory of the event.
Neither of those things are true.

in·for·ma·tion

1. facts provided or learned about something or someone.
2. what is conveyed or represented by a particular arrangement or sequence of things.

---

(November 24, 2018 at 9:15 pm)Paleophyte Wrote:

(November 24, 2018 at 9:10 pm)Everena Wrote: Intelligence is required for any information to exist at all. There is no boundary. There is a God Bucky. There is a God.

If there wasn't a Gawd your thumb drive wouldn't work.

There is a God, so the only worry you have is about the life decisions you make. Here's an old song for you and Bucky and the gang.

The following should be read in the voices of Edmund Blackadder and Baldric.

God! How's that submarine coming along?

Great Boss! Fully autonomous and self-replicating.

Outstanding, now...

We're just trimming the wings down.

Wings?

Yup. We have to shorten them or there'll be too much drag.

Why does the submarine have wings?

Well, we built it starting with a airplane we had...

Why did you build a submarine out of an airplane? This thing isn't going to fly is it?

No, no! That's be silly! >casually drops a folder on the flying fish blueprints< We used an airplane so it'd be sleek! It'll look Fast! All the valkyries will go mad over it!

You. Built. A. Submarine. From. An. Airplane.

Well, yes...

Doesn't that cause... Problems?

Well, it drowns if it stays under water too long.

You. Built. A. Submarine. That. Drowns.

If it stays under too long.

The Submarine... Drowns...

And, it doesn't walk very well.

The... Submarine... Walks...

Well yes. I has to lay its eggs on land.

Submarine... Eggs...

Yes, self-replicating and all.

But not very well...

Well no, it gets eaten a lot so it has to lay its eggs in Antarctica.

Ant... Arctica...

Yes. Only place without too many predators.

And that's it?

Well it tends to freeze up sometimes.

Lovely.

Or starve to death.

Starve. To Death.

Well...

You built a SUBMARINE from an AIRPLANE that DROWNS and can only breed on LAND and because, surprise!!!, it doesn't WALK VERY WELL so it can only mate in an environment so HELLISH that nothing else ever ventures there to eat it, and then it either FREEZES or STARVES!?!?!

Well no, sometime it gets eaten by this.

What in the name of all that's unholy is THAT?!?

Oh, that's a fully autonomous, self-replicating submarine grinder! We call it an Orca. It's a submarine that we built starting with a mowing machine!

It appears that Poster Everena is suffering from several mental disorders, centered around all the four DSM-V Cluster B personality disorders. Perhaps they stem from the childhood abuse she disclosed earlier in this thread, which obviously remains untreated professionally. Instead, she self-medicates with her elaborate invented woo woo. That seems to have generated nothing more than deep anger and hate, resulting in a rather sick woman. Sad and pathetic.

(November 24, 2018 at 9:53 pm)sdelsolray Wrote: It quite appears that Poster Everena is suffering from several mental disorders, centered around all the four DSM-V Cluster B personality disorders.  Perhaps they stem from the childhood abuse she disclosed earlier in this thread, which obviously remains untreated.

You have no clue what you're talking about as usual. And what I said was that I was pulled out of my body during one instance of abuse when I was 4 years old and did not suffer the pain of it because of that. I did not suffer childhood abuse and I do not have any mental issues. Thanks for caring though (not)

(November 24, 2018 at 9:18 pm)Everena Wrote: Penrose is an award winning physicist who is considered a genius by the entire science community. Hameroff is a doctor who became interested in consciousness by reading Penrose's book and studying microtubules which he found fascinating. Yes their hypotheses was highly controversial from day one because it is more accomodating to spiritual approaches to consciousness. Like all other scientists and doctors in the world, they are not perfect. Because of them we know that there are quantum vibrations occuring in the microtubules of our brain and this has been proven and corroborated by three different groups of scientists. What ever you decide to make of it from there is up to you unless they prove something new. Currently there are no other theories of consciousness that have been proven.

Their notions don't work. You'd be dead if they did.

The theories that they are based upon are untested and don't actually exist, not to put to fine a point on it.

You know bubkis about what other theories of consciousness might have any evidence.

Quote:in·for·ma·tion

1. facts provided or learned about something or someone.
2. what is conveyed or represented by a particular arrangement or sequence of things.

Note the information in the inanimate and unthinking.

Quote:There is a God, so the only worry you have is about the life decisions you make. Here's an old song for you and Bucky and the gang.

Karma Chameleon? You just don't get irony do you?