(December 12, 2018 at 5:41 pm)Agnostico Wrote: Intersting and again varying responses.
Some people justify it. Others claim its not everyone. Some are angry that im questioning their anger.

The only thing all atheists necessarily have in common is our lack of belief in gods. Full stop.

Time for you to get over your attempts at stereotyping us.

There are no atheist dogma, doctrine, authoritative infallible texts, popes, leaders, etc.

Quote:The same thing happened to me. I didn't say anything but I  resented my parents for raising me as a Catholic. So I was an atheist for a while. Rejecting all claims in any God.
Eventually, emotions eased and logic prevailed. My parents aren't intentionally feeding lies to me. They were taught this and don't know any better. I eventually extended this logic to the ordinary people who are theists. I eventually came to the conclusion that i cannot reject the possibility of some kind of God or creator and vowed to only deal in facts, knowledge and truth instead of feelings and beliefs.

Of course they weren't purposely lying to you. It is possible to have anger toward the beliefs, without anger toward ones parents for teaching them. They probably had good intentions.

I am not sure that logic actually did prevail. After all, you are unable to see the differences between beliefs and knowledge.

Well, what do you know? I am an atheist and also came to the conclusion that I cannot reject the possibility of some kind of God or creator.

Quote:My mum told me how she was waiting to pay for her groceries when a couple began to harass her over a simple crucifix necklace. She asked them to leave her alone but they caused such a scene that she left her shopping trolley in the queue and walked away. What kind of spinless person does this. Criticises an old woman for her necklace at the grocery store... And I bet some people here would justify this. Most won't mention it. While some will continue with the accusations as they are threatened by my skeptical line of questioning.

Those people that harassed your mother were assholes.

Quote:The dislike of Christianity is well-known and unjustifyably aggressive. The preaching of the atheist belief as being superior to other traditional beliefs lacks credability. Its a reactionary position without foundation, taken only to oppose religion. Atheists don't believe there are gods but also don't believe there are no Gods apparently. This is blatent hypocracy to the most extreme.

It is possible to hate the immoral belief system, without hating the believers. Most of my family and friends are theists.

Atheism is not a belief system.

I also disbelieve in: bigfoot, aliens, Loch Ness monster, Jinn, garden fairies, etc, for the same reasons I disbelieve in gods. Lack of evidence and valid and sound logic to support the claim that they exist. Is my disbelief in all those also a belief?

(December 12, 2018 at 4:50 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:

(December 12, 2018 at 4:05 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: Bla bla bla bla
OF COURSE the same stimuli aren't going to cause the same reaction in different people ... NO ONE SAID THEY WOULD. All the rest of your garbage is irrelevant.
The stimuli ARE processed in the same parts of DIFFERENT brains, and emotion and beliefs ARE not processed in the same parts of the SAME brain.
But thanks for demonstrating your COMPLETE IGNORANCE of Neuro-science ... they DO know which part of brains process different things ... at least people do who didn't go to school in the 1950's.
https://www.health24.com/Mental-Health/B...s-20120721

Since we're talking about "brains" and feelings, here's a chance for you to use your brain and learn.

Temporal lobe: The temporal lobes are found on either side of the brain and just above the ears. The temporal lobes are responsible for hearing, memory, meaning, and language. They also play a role in emotion and learning. The temporal lobes are concerned with interpreting and processing auditory stimuli.

(Oh look, we have a region of the brain controlling logic (memory, meaning, and language, auditory stimuli) and emotion (feelings).)

Frontal lobe:It is concerned with emotions, reasoning, planning, movement, and parts of speech. It is also involved in purposeful acts such as creativity, judgment, and problem solving, and planning

(Again logic and emotion in same region of brain)

Cerebellum: controls your movement, balance, posture, and coordination. New research has also linked it to thinking, novelty, and emotions. The limbic system, often referred to as the "emotional brain", is found buried within the cerebrum.

(What?  Not another region connected to logic (thinking and emotion, + balance)


From Health24

So there you have it, your argument completely blown to smithereens with a reality check.  If you measuring brain activity, how do you suppose you're going to distinguish what is "logic-based" and "feeling-based" if the activity is in the same parts of the brain?  So back to what I said before.  The information is correct that we know what the regions do, but it didn't do a lick of anything towards disproving his statement.  What's really sad is you apparently didn't even read the page you linked, but I'm glad you did since it showed something entirely different than the nonsense you came up with.

As far as your last statement that it was different parts in different brains isn't what the study said either.  It stated they were measuring "belief" and "disbelief".  It's not that they impacted different parts in different brains, but rather the person interpreted something differently.  if you believe "atheism" is logical (belief), then you're going to process it in one area.  If another person associates it with "disbelief" then they're going to use a different part of their brain.  It doesn't change the stimuli, but rather where the interpretation causes activity.  If someone has certainty (belief) in theism and someone has certainty (belief) in atheism, same place.

Too bad for the smoldering ignoramus, but ummm. no. 
Cognitive skills are located in the Frontal lobe, emotion is not. The "role" played in emotion by the Frontal lobe is CONTROL of emotion. Try harder please.

https://biau.org/about-brain-injuries/co...the-brain/
https://www.quora.com/What-part-of-the-b...ns-and-how

Ok fellow atheists in this thread, lets just face up to the fact we all eat barbecue kittens, and be done with it.

(December 12, 2018 at 5:41 pm)Agnostico Wrote: Some people justify it. Others claim its not everyone. Some are angry that im questioning their anger.

Perhaps it's more like some of us just find your constant whining about atheists really annoying. I also find it ironic that you accuse atheists of being angry when you come off as a really angry person yourself.

Quote:While others are still getting hung up on labels which was the first thing i tried clarifying on this forum. I repeatedly asked what to call it without a response. "We don't want any labels"

Call what exactly? Atheism? Atheism is a lack of belief in the existence of god(s), not an assertive belief regarding the non-existence of god(s). It's not that we don't want atheism to be a belief, it's that calling atheism a belief is misleading.

Quote:People got emotional when i called it a view or a position as well.

I'm not convinced that anyone got emotional when you called atheism anything, and suspect you may be projecting big time. Nevertheless, atheism (in the simplest sense of the term) isn't a belief. It might be rightly considered a position or view or whatever, but it doesn't affirm the truth of anything with respect to the existence of god(s) ... or anything for that matter. It's a lack of belief, not a belief itself.

Quote:I have to call it something so i'll call it a belief seeing they believe there are no Gods by definition.

No that would be a specific subtype of atheism, namely "strong atheism". Not all atheists believe there are no gods; many atheists simply do not make an assertive statement regarding the existence or non-existence of god(s).

Quote:Perhaps people would prefer if I called it a feeling.

Not in this case. A feeling would indicate a belief of some sort. Mere atheism is not a belief; it's just a suspension of belief.

Quote:The man in the video has no problem excusing his own family for bringing him up in a religion. His logic being that they were taught that and don't know any better.
But instead of applying this logic to the rest of the people he goes on to slam everyone else in religion. How irrational can one be?

Haven't seen the video, nor do I care enough to watch it. What I do find curious is why exactly are you so hung up about this? Did an atheist hurt your feelings or something? Is this why you've decided to come here and, quite ironically, slam atheists because of the action of one or a select few atheists?

Quote:The same thing happened to me. I didn't say anything but I  resented my parents for raising me as a Catholic. So I was an atheist for a while. Rejecting all claims in any God.
Eventually, emotions eased and logic prevailed. My parents aren't intentionally feeding lies to me. They were taught this and don't know any better. I eventually extended this logic to the ordinary people who are theists. I eventually came to the conclusion that i cannot reject the possibility of some kind of God or creator and vowed to only deal in facts, knowledge and truth instead of feelings and beliefs.

So why the hate then? If you're all about facts, knowledge and truth now instead of feelings and beliefs, why the hell are you acting so emotional? It's like you don't even realize how you're coming across as.

Quote:For someone who holds a belief these type of rections are unreasonable and truly savage. He wasn't being personally confronted and shouted at. He wasn't abused, thretened or forced to do anything. The only people he can be angry with are his family and himself. Blaming ordinary people is not fair. Though atheism Im learning is in itself not very fair. Preaching ur beliefs by slandering the beliefs of others isn't at all tolerant.

Neither are you for that matter. Ever since your first post here, you've not come across as very accepting of atheists. And you still insist on calling atheism a belief despite people here making the contrary clear to you over and over.

And how the hell do you know what the person in the video has gone though exactly? You don't exactly have access to his past experiences now, do you?

Quote:Vilifying a whole group of people for something that happened before our lifetime like war or slavery is insane. No one can change the past. The fact is that 99% of Christians keep to themselves. They don't force their views on others. They have good morals.

Then why not do the same yourself then? Who the fuck do you think you are that you can lecture any of us about morals when you come across as a sanctimonious hypocritical prick?

Quote:My mum told me how she was waiting to pay for her groceries when a couple began to harass her over a simple crucifix necklace. She asked them to leave her alone but they caused such a scene that she left her shopping trolley in the queue and walked away. What kind of spinless person does this. Criticises an old woman for her necklace at the grocery store... And I bet some people here would justify this. Most won't mention it. While some will continue with the accusations as they are threatened by my skeptical line of questioning.

What skeptical line of questioning? And who said that the couple who harrassed your mum were atheists? You do know that there are Christians out there who criticize other Christians for wearing a crucifix, right?

Quote:The dislike of Christianity is well-known and unjustifyably aggressive. The preaching of the atheist belief as being superior to other traditional beliefs lacks credability. Its a reactionary position without foundation, taken only to oppose religion. Atheists don't believe there are gods but also don't believe there are no Gods apparently. This is blatent hypocracy to the most extreme.

I don't even think you understand what the word "hypocrisy" means. And again, I have to point out that you are being an aggressive fuck yourself, and projecting how you feel about atheists onto us. You yourself are the hypocrite here because you're accusing others of that which you are blatantly guilty of yourself.

And again with the wilful misrepresentations. You're that angry with atheists, aren't ya?

(December 12, 2018 at 6:30 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote:

(December 12, 2018 at 4:50 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: Since we're talking about "brains" and feelings, here's a chance for you to use your brain and learn.

Temporal lobe: The temporal lobes are found on either side of the brain and just above the ears. The temporal lobes are responsible for hearing, memory, meaning, and language. They also play a role in emotion and learning. The temporal lobes are concerned with interpreting and processing auditory stimuli.

(Oh look, we have a region of the brain controlling logic (memory, meaning, and language, auditory stimuli) and emotion (feelings).)

Frontal lobe:It is concerned with emotions, reasoning, planning, movement, and parts of speech. It is also involved in purposeful acts such as creativity, judgment, and problem solving, and planning

(Again logic and emotion in same region of brain)

Cerebellum: controls your movement, balance, posture, and coordination. New research has also linked it to thinking, novelty, and emotions. The limbic system, often referred to as the "emotional brain", is found buried within the cerebrum.

(What?  Not another region connected to logic (thinking and emotion, + balance)


From Health24

So there you have it, your argument completely blown to smithereens with a reality check.  If you measuring brain activity, how do you suppose you're going to distinguish what is "logic-based" and "feeling-based" if the activity is in the same parts of the brain?  So back to what I said before.  The information is correct that we know what the regions do, but it didn't do a lick of anything towards disproving his statement.  What's really sad is you apparently didn't even read the page you linked, but I'm glad you did since it showed something entirely different than the nonsense you came up with.

As far as your last statement that it was different parts in different brains isn't what the study said either.  It stated they were measuring "belief" and "disbelief".  It's not that they impacted different parts in different brains, but rather the person interpreted something differently.  if you believe "atheism" is logical (belief), then you're going to process it in one area.  If another person associates it with "disbelief" then they're going to use a different part of their brain.  It doesn't change the stimuli, but rather where the interpretation causes activity.  If someone has certainty (belief) in theism and someone has certainty (belief) in atheism, same place.

Too bad for the smoldering ignoramus, but ummm. no. 
Cognitive skills are located in the Frontal lobe, emotion is not. You either purposely 

https://biau.org/about-brain-injuries/co...the-brain/
https://www.quora.com/What-part-of-the-b...ns-and-how

It said what they were attempting to observe in the title.  Belief, disbelief, and uncertainty.  You could've used a statement about pickles and ice cream, and it would probably have the same results.   All it was doing was indicating activity in a particular region of the brain for each of the three variables.  Somehow you managed to try to use that to invalidate someone's statement about "feelings."  So, as stated earlier, the actual observation was right about things being compartmentalized, but not about refuting anything he had stated.

(December 12, 2018 at 6:37 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:

(December 12, 2018 at 6:30 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: Too bad for the smoldering ignoramus, but ummm. no. 
Cognitive skills are located in the Frontal lobe, emotion is not.

https://biau.org/about-brain-injuries/co...the-brain/
https://www.quora.com/What-part-of-the-b...ns-and-how

It said what they were attempting to observe in the title.  Belief, disbelief, and uncertainty.  You could've used a statement about pickles and ice cream, and it would probably have the same results.   All it was doing was indicating activity in a particular region of the brain for each of the three variables.  Somehow you managed to try to use that to invalidate someone's statement about "feelings."  So, as stated earlier, the actual observation was right about things being compartmentalized, but not about refuting anything he had stated.

Nothing but bla bla bla bullshit back-peddling. 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3929007/

(December 12, 2018 at 5:41 pm)Agnostico Wrote: Intersting and again varying responses.
Some people justify it. Others claim its not everyone. Some are angry that im questioning their anger.

While others are still getting hung up on labels which was the first thing i tried clarifying on this forum. I repeatedly asked what to call it without a response. "We don't want any labels"
People got emotional when i called it a view or a position as well.
I have to call it something so i'll call it a belief seeing they believe there are no Gods by definition.
Perhaps people would prefer if I called it a feeling.

The man in the video has no problem excusing his own family for bringing him up in a religion. His logic being that they were taught that and don't know any better.
But instead of applying this logic to the rest of the people he goes on to slam everyone else in religion. How irrational can one be?

The same thing happened to me. I didn't say anything but I  resented my parents for raising me as a Catholic. So I was an atheist for a while. Rejecting all claims in any God.
Eventually, emotions eased and logic prevailed. My parents aren't intentionally feeding lies to me. They were taught this and don't know any better. I eventually extended this logic to the ordinary people who are theists. I eventually came to the conclusion that i cannot reject the possibility of some kind of God or creator and vowed to only deal in facts, knowledge and truth instead of feelings and beliefs.

For someone who holds a belief these type of rections are unreasonable and truly savage. He wasn't being personally confronted and shouted at. He wasn't abused, thretened or forced to do anything. The only people he can be angry with are his family and himself. Blaming ordinary people is not fair. Though atheism Im learning is in itself not very fair. Preaching ur beliefs by slandering the beliefs of others isn't at all tolerant.

Vilifying a whole group of people for something that happened before our lifetime like war or slavery is insane. No one can change the past. The fact is that 99% of Christians keep to themselves. They don't force their views on others. They have good morals.

My mum told me how she was waiting to pay for her groceries when a couple began to harass her over a simple crucifix necklace. She asked them to leave her alone but they caused such a scene that she left her shopping trolley in the queue and walked away. What kind of spinless person does this. Criticises an old woman for her necklace at the grocery store... And I bet some people here would justify this. Most won't mention it. While some will continue with the accusations as they are threatened by my skeptical line of questioning.

The dislike of Christianity is well-known and unjustifyably aggressive. The preaching of the atheist belief as being superior to other traditional beliefs lacks credability. Its a reactionary position without foundation, taken only to oppose religion. Atheists don't believe there are gods but also don't believe there are no Gods apparently. This is blatent hypocracy to the most extreme.

Hello theist.

(December 12, 2018 at 6:44 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote:

(December 12, 2018 at 6:37 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: It said what they were attempting to observe in the title.  Belief, disbelief, and uncertainty.  You could've used a statement about pickles and ice cream, and it would probably have the same results.   All it was doing was indicating activity in a particular region of the brain for each of the three variables.  Somehow you managed to try to use that to invalidate someone's statement about "feelings."  So, as stated earlier, the actual observation was right about things being compartmentalized, but not about refuting anything he had stated.

Nothing but bla bla bla bullshit back-peddling. 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3929007/

Go keep being a pseudo-scientist then.  The study says what it says.  If you can't deal with it, then it would make more sense to stay away from scientific studies and maybe try your hand at coloring books.

(December 11, 2018 at 11:23 pm)Agnostico Wrote:

(December 11, 2018 at 10:27 pm)wyzas Wrote: Gosh, I've never ever seen an angry theist. Never had one damn me to hell, tell me I'm ruining my/families salvation, that I'm fucked up in the head, or that I would be better off dead. Nope, all theists only ever say good things to me.

Edit: A side note, you might run into atheists with less tolerance when it's perceived that there may be a hidden agenda or motive.

Ad Hominem. The cheapest and most used fallacy...
Stop defeating ur own claim... Watch and Learn if u can follow logic...

(Sigh.) Wyzas was being sarcastic... not insulting. You may find his sarcasm insulting, but that doesn't make it an insult.

And here's another distinction you might want to make yourself aware of: there is a difference between an insult and an ad hominem. An insult is: "You smell like poop." An ad hominem is: "You smell like poop, therefore your idea is incorrect." Learn the difference.

(December 12, 2018 at 5:41 pm)Agnostico Wrote: Intersting and again varying responses.
Some people justify it. Others claim its not everyone. Some are angry that im questioning their anger.

HOW DARE YOU QUESTION MY ANGER!!!

Quote:Eventually, emotions eased and logic prevailed. My parents aren't intentionally feeding lies to me. They were taught this and don't know any better. I eventually extended this logic to the ordinary people who are theists. I eventually came to the conclusion that i cannot reject the possibility of some kind of God or creator and vowed to only deal in facts, knowledge and truth instead of feelings and beliefs.

You had a period of genuine reflection. That's good. But it doesn't necessarily equate to embracing logic. One needn't turn away from one's emotional self in order to become logical. People are angry at religion for good reason. Others are angry at religion for stupid reasons. Logic helps one discern good reasoning from bad reasoning. In no way is logic an abolition of emotion. It is merely the ability to separate one's emotional predisposition from one's view of the truth.

Quote:The dislike of Christianity is well-known and unjustifyably aggressive. The preaching of the atheist belief as being superior to other traditional beliefs lacks credability. Its a reactionary position without foundation, taken only to oppose religion. Atheists don't believe there are gods but also don't believe there are no Gods apparently. This is blatent hypocracy to the most extreme.

You may want to read thinkers like Leo Tolstoy or Søren Kierkegaard. These two guys disliked and were angered by Christianity and yet they themselves were Christians. These two thinkers didn't oppose religion. Yet they saw "Christianity" as it was practiced in their day to be entirely farcical. If two Christians are entitled to have such opinions about Christianity, aren't atheists also entitled to have similar opinions... especially concerning a ubiquitous cultural phenomenon which affects their lives?

Quote:You may want to read thinkers like Leo Tolstoy or Søren Kierkegaard. These two guys disliked and were angered by Christianity and yet they themselves were Christians. These two thinkers didn't oppose religion. Yet they saw "Christianity" as it was practiced in their day to be entirely farcical. If two Christians are entitled to have such opinions about Christianity, aren't atheists also entitled to have similar opinions... especially concerning a ubiquitous cultural phenomenon which affects their lives?

Not to mention Martin Luther.  Christianity pissed that old Christian off to the extent that he nailed his complaints to a church door.
I would like to state - for the record - that I have NEVER nailed anything to a church door.  Thank you.

Boru