Question for Theists

[Bucky Ball]

So (some) theists, especially Catholics talk about what heaven is like, ("beatific vision etc") and various levels of how much happiness they will have. 

Tommy Aquinas (the Angelic Doctor, a priest, a saint, supposedly a charitable enough Christian that he went to heaven), said that one of the things that will contribute to that happiness of the blessed in heaven, (either in the Compendium, or the Summa Theologica) is that they will be able to see the suffering of their enemies in hell, and that will contribute to their happiness. I wonder just how happy they actually are, if in seeing their enemies suffer (nice guy isn't he) suffer can add anything to their vision of God ? 

[emjay]

Sadly I think that's the selling point for many; schadenfreude. But seems to me that's completely logically inconsistent with a religion (Christianity) centering around forgiveness.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Can I come to your church and preach atheism? You know, "be rational", "don't be pompous dicks", "don't blame other people for your own failings". Atheistic shit like that.

[The Grand Nudger]

Sadly I think that's the selling point for many; schadenfreude. But seems to me that's completely logically inconsistent with a religion (Christianity) centering around forgiveness.

You misunderstand christianity.  Forgiveness, but only for some.  A very small some, if you ask any given sub-cult of christians...who wouldn't even admit all the other christians to their heavens.  If you reframe your understanding of christianity as a late roman appropriation of an ethnocentric myth concocted by conquered people, you'll see both that and how consistent it is to wish ill upon your profligate enemies, real and perceived. The whole "centered on forgiveness" shit has only ever been ad copy - cover for all of the terrible shit they actually do, wholly and certainly informed of by their faiths.

[emjay]

Sadly I think that's the selling point for many; schadenfreude. But seems to me that's completely logically inconsistent with a religion (Christianity) centering around forgiveness.

You misunderstand christianity.  Forgiveness, but only for some.  A very small some, if you ask any given sub-cult of christians...who wouldn't even admit all the other christians to their heavens.  If you reframe your understanding of christianity as a late roman appropriation of an ethnocentric myth concocted by conquered people, you'll see both that and how consistent it is to wish ill upon your profligate enemies, real and perceived. The whole "centered on forgiveness" shit has only ever been ad copy - cover for all of the terrible shit they actually do, wholly and certainly informed of by their faiths.

You mean roughly similar to what I think it was Drich used to say, ie that 'love thy neighbour' only really meant 'love thy Christian neighbour'? In other words love your Christian brother but everyone else can go to hell, literally and figuratively in this sense.

[Angrboda]

Well, you're ignoring the universalists, for one.

[Anomalocaris]

Sadly I think that's the selling point for many; schadenfreude. But seems to me that's completely logically inconsistent with a religion (Christianity) centering around forgiveness.

You misunderstand christianity.  Forgiveness, but only for some.  A very small some, if you ask any given sub-cult of christians...who wouldn't even admit all the other christians to their heavens.  If you reframe your understanding of christianity as a late roman appropriation of an ethnocentric myth concocted by conquered people, you'll see both that and how consistent it is to wish ill upon your profligate enemies, real and perceived.  The whole "centered on forgiveness" shit has only ever been ad copy - cover for all of the terrible shit they actually do, wholly and certainly informed of by their faiths.

Make believe Schadenfreude reinforced by company of the likeminded?

[The Grand Nudger]

Well, you're ignoring the universalists, for one.

Not at all.  Universalism is a rejection of judeochristian values from within the judeochristian envelope.  A late rejection, at that, as christianity has been infiltrated by and incorporated even more novel pagan and secular ideas than it had at it's conception.  

It's the bridge between what christianity is or was, to what that community of faith will become....lauded by us, perhaps..but feared by their holymen.  A post christian christianity.

[Angrboda]

Well, you're ignoring the universalists, for one.

Not at all.  Universalism is a rejection of judeochristian values from within the judeochristian envelope.  A late rejection, at that, as christianity has been infiltrated by and incorporated even more novel pagan and secular ideas than it had at it's conception.  

It's the bridge between what christianity is or was, to what that community of faith will become....lauded by us, perhaps..but feared by their holymen.  A post christian christianity.

Now you're just arguing semantics. You'll be trotting out some true Scotsmen for us next.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Well, you're ignoring the universalists, for one.

And annihilationists.