Briefly. Knowledge is ultimate. Then there is thought.
Belief holds little value to me.
Othere interesting topics like desire and off course morality are interesting to me at the moment
It's not an attack or criticism. It's just my mindset

Wen I was transitioning from catholic up bringing to atheism to agnosticism my focus was on the question of God.
I would see this topic of morality but found it hard to comprehend.
So I went over with my shovel and started digging. The surface was so hard so I gave up.

Next time I went with some hand tools. Chisels, sledge hammers, demo gear. I tried and tried to demolish the surface but made little impact. So I walked away.

Next time I went there with a jack hammer. Still nothing. I think I tried about 8 times to crack the surface. Each time using bigger equipment and more machinery.

Then one day while I was digging BANG. On of my excavators fell onto the ground. I cracked the surface. Underneath was softer sediment. Morality then opened up and became so intense to me that the God question sits back there somewhere now.

That's not an argument or criticism just an account of my struggle's with morality. Any thoughts welcomed and appreciated

It's not clear what struggles you had, or what they have to do with gods?

Is there something here that you’d like to discuss, or...? I’m not really sure what you’re talking about, tbh.

Evolution is where our morality comes from, it is also why other species help each other. There is no sky wizard causing us to do good or bad. 





The same reason this cat protected the kid.

(December 17, 2018 at 3:31 pm)Agnostico Wrote: Briefly. Knowledge is ultimate. Then there is thought.
Belief holds little value to me.
Othere interesting topics like desire and off course morality are interesting to me at the moment
It's not an attack or criticism. It's just my mindset

Wen I was transitioning from catholic up bringing to atheism to agnosticism my focus was on the question of God.
I would see this topic of morality but found it hard to comprehend.
So I went over with my shovel and started digging. The surface was so hard so I gave up.

Next time I went with some hand tools. Chisels, sledge hammers, demo gear. I tried and tried to demolish the surface but made little impact. So I walked away.

Next time I went there with a jack hammer. Still nothing. I think I tried about 8 times to crack the surface. Each time using bigger equipment and more machinery.

Then one day while I was digging BANG. On of my excavators fell onto the ground. I cracked the surface. Underneath was softer sediment. Morality then opened up and became so intense to me that the God question sits back there somewhere now.

That's not an argument or criticism just an account of my struggle's with morality. Any thoughts welcomed and appreciated

I think your struggle may have been due to using the wrong tools.  Next time, try a fret hammer and a camel's hair brush.

Boru

Why do/did you struggle with morality, exactly?

(December 17, 2018 at 3:31 pm)Agnostico Wrote: Then one day while I was digging BANG. On of my excavators fell onto the ground. I cracked the surface. Underneath was softer sediment. Morality then opened up and became so intense to me that the God question sits back there somewhere now.

Can you be a little more specific on what your struggles are?

Here is a video that pretty much nails morality.

"The Superiority of Secular Morality"

OK, I'll bite, what god question?

Why do I feel like this is yet another thread with a hidden agenda?

I think I forgot to mention the topic of God is old to me and seems almost unrelated to morals.

Well like I postulated in the other post I think religions may have been created to form the foundation for morals in society. The need for a "sky god" theory falls apart for me with religions like Buddhism. Many of them don't worship any Gods. Also I can't imagine man having the time to ponder such a question which brings no immediate result to the difficult state of life at the time.

So the question to why are there always these religions puzzles me. Though I'm sure some here are quite comfortable in ignoring eastern religions to stick to their sky daddy desire complex

Our morals are based on self, here and now. They vary between people. If I polled a question, any question like abortion there will be different opinions. Which one is right? How do we know it's right? Right for who? Each person's opinion is made on their preferences. Cave man's preferences are based on instincts, on self preservation. I don't see much about morals in a societal context, always of self.

So although a person without religion can be a good person, a society needs to operate on one unified moral system which is built not for us, here and now but for future generations. Humans are very narcissistic. They believe they can control the weather, create a new universe and are all knowing.

I read that if a person doesn't have a religion then the text or entity which they value the highest will be their religion or God. This leads to a hostile and dogmatic defense of this God which mirrors theists defence of their doctrines. I find this so true which scares me cos I see what I was like wen I was an atheist/anti theist and I never want to be in that closed off mindset again.

I can get the 10 commandments and mirror many of them onto atheism.

This Gae Bolga guy for example looks only about 26-28yo, uses only agriculture to form theories while ignoring all the others factors. Yet refuses to enter a civilized discourse dismissing any argument as if he is this all knowing entity by which the laws of nature adhere to. To these types of snowflakes I say grow up. U are not unique. Ur thoughts are just that... Thoughts. Immature thoughts that will no doubt develop over time

A good chunk of the Decalogue has nothing to do with morality, and the set itself is clearly insufficient to account for every matter to do with morality. And most people don't need the Decalogue to know/believe that killing is wrong, stealing is wrong, false testimony is wrong, adultery is wrong ...