(December 30, 2018 at 11:33 pm)possibletarian Wrote:

(December 30, 2018 at 11:24 pm)Angelina Wrote: How are those forces acting upon matter and energy, if not by God? How did energy and matter even come to exist? Life is really the best evidence that God exists. How about that we can feel, taste, smell, hear, experience levels of emotion and fear and pain. I find it hard to believe all those things would just happen, without a creator.

*bold mine*
Again Angelina you are basing everything simply on belief that a god must be responsible, try dropping 'if not god then'' or ''I find it hard to believe without..'', they really are nothing more than decelerations of faith.

What do terms like 'come to exist' even mean, how do you know they are simply not part of a process for instance ?  

Try simply asking how something works, if the answer is we don't know, then that's the answer, no need to add a god in anywhere.

Again try reading this link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/earth/story/2014110...ist-at-all

And try and answer this question.

How can i tell the difference between faith and no god at all ?

Did you really read that article? Popped into existence from nothing at all? That is ludicrous. Look at everything in our universe and on our planet!

For those who are regurgitating the crap of William Lane Craig, please read the following:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/William_Lane_Craig

It's quite difficult to reason with delusional people.

I'm not sure why we try. It feels like a lost cause.

Perhaps we enjoy the crazy shit they say or maybe we enjoy the insane arguments. I'm personally intrigued by how gullible some people can be.

But then again, the brainwashing starts when they are young and they trust the people closest to them to tell them the truth. Except they don't get the truth.

They come here for the truth.

They want us to knock down the walls of lies that have been built up in their minds. They fight against it, but yet they stay in hopes that each brick will slowly come down.

We atheists fight for you.
We fight so that you will have a more reasonable mind that isn't so gullible.

We care about the truth, even if you don't.

(December 31, 2018 at 1:33 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: You don't know that. I know that you are convinced and obstinate.

Don't know what?

Maybe that's why I'm asking questions.

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(December 31, 2018 at 1:16 pm)wyzas Wrote:

(December 31, 2018 at 12:32 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: Respectfully, I disagree in part.  People may be compelled, but that doesn't always mean they will.  For example, people who condition themselves with lies.  At some point they assume the lie to be true.  I'll just throw out the example of people who are anorexic or bulimic.  Objectively we can tell they are not at a healthy weight, but the person will often go to extreme measures to maintain or continually drop lower than their current unhealthy weight.   You can even educate them and still many will disagree.  However, some will start to see it objectively and get treatment.  Even then, there is still an internal struggle and they will often act on it accordingly.

Then according to your analogy you have the equivalent of the mind of an anorexic, not about food, but with god or religion?

More whataboutism.  Also based on a false premise.  No reason to take this seriously as an objection.  As far as the example, you are welcome to dispute it if you disagree.

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(December 31, 2018 at 2:02 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(December 31, 2018 at 1:50 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: I wasn't "just stating something" for no reason, and I didn't suggest any or all people must accept my statement.  However, many people, and not just Christians, see it as cause and effect.  So the effect is seen as evidence.  Do I expect you to assume that as evidence?  No.  I expect you to decide for yourself.

I'm not going out of my way to evade any of your questions, but a lot of them are separate issues, and they are a distraction to what is being discussed.  If the focal point goes from one or two, to five or more, it can significantly complicate the discussion.  I'm happy to respond to things, but I know for me personally, my head is going to get a bit frazzled from trying to address too many things at once.

Ok then, lets start simple.

Define god.

From the Merriam Webster Dictionary (source linked)

God - capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: such as

a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe

b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind

___

There are also three other definitions from this dictionary.  For the sake of discussion, I would propose 1a.

You left out the word mythical.

The mythical being who is worshipped by delusional people

(December 31, 2018 at 4:23 pm)Rahn127 Wrote: You left out the word mythical.

The mythical being who is worshipped by delusional people

Says the nut who has imaginary dream powers.

(December 31, 2018 at 4:24 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:

(December 31, 2018 at 4:23 pm)Rahn127 Wrote: You left out the word mythical.

The mythical being who is worshipped by delusional people

Says the nut who has imaginary dream powers.

Says the guy who wants to be a slave to his invented mental delusion.

(December 31, 2018 at 4:05 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:

(December 31, 2018 at 1:33 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: You don't know that. I know that you are convinced and obstinate.

Don't know what?

Maybe that's why I'm asking questions.

I think you're just stumble-fucking around.

(December 31, 2018 at 4:27 pm)Rahn127 Wrote:

(December 31, 2018 at 4:24 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: Says the nut who has imaginary dream powers.

Says the guy who wants to be a slave to his invented mental delusion.

I don't see myself as a slave, but hey, it's your story.

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(December 31, 2018 at 4:32 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(December 31, 2018 at 4:05 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: Don't know what?

Maybe that's why I'm asking questions.

I think you're just stumble-fucking around.

Tis your view and your right to think as such.  Enjoy.

(December 31, 2018 at 4:05 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:

(December 31, 2018 at 1:33 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: You don't know that. I know that you are convinced and obstinate.

Don't know what?

Maybe that's why I'm asking questions.

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(December 31, 2018 at 1:16 pm)wyzas Wrote: Then according to your analogy you have the equivalent of the mind of an anorexic, not about food, but with god or religion?

More whataboutism.  Also based on a false premise.  No reason to take this seriously as an objection.  As far as the example, you are welcome to dispute it if you disagree.

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(December 31, 2018 at 2:02 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Ok then, lets start simple.

Define god.

From the Merriam Webster Dictionary (source linked)

God - capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: such as

a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe

b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind

___

There are also three other definitions from this dictionary.  For the sake of discussion, I would propose 1a.

OK, so that is (sort of) a definition. Why would anyone think such a being exists? For that matter, how is 'perfection' defined in this context? What scale is used?