Quote:We need to enforce the immigration laws to the fullest extent.  Illegal immigrants risking their childrens lives dragging them across deserts would not be tolerated by US citizens if their own people did such things.  We call that child abuse and neglect.  

Considering the alternative which would be an even greater abuse .This just comes off as weak sauce .

Quote:But the inherent racism of the left is graphically shown when they tolerate such abuse by latinos, justified by their own personal gain (cheap salads) and mirrors their own bigotry against people of a different skin color. 

Yeah no us accepting children and their parents fleeing poverty and violence is not racism . You are just being absurd 

Quote:The left does not believe SOME people can be held to the same standard as white people. 

Bullshit 

Quote:The left believes its OK to put latinos to work in jobs white people dont want.  

It's better then them having no job and living in crippling poverty 

Quote:No consideration as to WHY people who can read and write at a higher than 8th grade education see how physically bad it is for them to ruin their backs for yuppie salads.  

Yes it's not great but it could be worst and again this absurd derp about racism is just that 

Quote:Go ahead and ask these various illegal immigrants whether they even tried to legally immigrate.  You can read it in the caravan reports.  Nope.  Not any effort at all to legally immigrate.

 Don't need to they don't have the time 

Quote:GAO found that: (1) illegal aliens in the United States generate more in costs than revenues to federal, state, and local governments combined; (2) estimates of the national net cost of illegal aliens vary greatly, ranging from $2 billion to $19 billion; (3) a great deal of uncertainty remains about the national fiscal impact of illegal aliens, because little data exists on illegal aliens' use of public services and tax payments; (4) displacement costs and revenue estimates account for much of the variation in the estimates of the national net costs of illegal aliens; (5) the estimates are difficult to assess because the studies do not always clearly explain the criteria used to determine which costs and revenues are appropriate to include in the estimates; and (6) the cost estimates could be improved by recognizing the difficulties inherent in collecting data on a hidden population, focusing on key characteristics of illegal aliens, and explaining more clearly which costs and revenues are appropriate to include in such estimates.

So an old ass report with questionable conclusions 

Quote:At the federal, state, and local levels, taxpayers shell out approximately $134.9 billion to cover the costs incurred by the presence of more than 12.5 million illegal aliens, and about 4.2 million citizen children of illegal aliens. That amounts to a tax burden of approximately $8,075 per illegal alien family member and a total of $115,894,597,664. The total cost of illegal immigration to U.S. taxpayers is both staggering and crippling. In 2013, FAIR estimated the total cost to be approximately $113 billion. So, in under four years, the cost has risen nearly $3 billion.

FAIR is a bias propaganda organization it's a sad day when you can successfully be owned by the CATO institute

https://www.cato.org/blog/fairs-fiscal-b...lly-flawed 

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(January 5, 2019 at 9:49 pm)Lek Wrote:

(January 5, 2019 at 6:19 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: A quick Google tells me:

-The US employs about 20 000 Border Patrol agents.  This number does not include non-field personnel.

-The USBP has a budget of about US$4 billion.

-The USBP operates (depending on how you count them) 10 000-12 000 vehicles.

-In 2017, the USBP either apprehended or turned back a little more than half a million people.

-The CPB estimates (hard to get exact figures) that around 300 000 people successfully and illegally entered the US in 2017, and that it has declined since then (so, it isn't 'thousands per day').

It that's not border control, it'll do until some comes along.

Boru

This is border control?  Some needs to come along right now.

Yes it is .

(January 4, 2019 at 1:51 pm)Lek Wrote: I live in the "sanctuary state" of California which refuses to aid ICE in apprehending people who are here illegally and actually seems to encourage people to come here illegally. I'm totally in favor of allowing immigration into the US and see our liberal immigration quotas as a positive.  What I don't understand is how we can exist as a nation if we don't have control over who enters the country.  I have a question for those who agree with the state of California and are against prosecuting those who have entered the country illegally or preventing undocumented people from crossing into the country as they wish.  What is your rationale and why is this good for us?

1. Entering without papers is not treated by the government like a violent felonies.

2. Most violations of staying are from overstaying visas.

3. Most migrants ARE NOT VIOLENT.

4. The majority of people in American's prisons ARE people born here with legal status.

5. Put yourself in your fellow human's shoes. If you are fleeing famine, violence and especially war, and especially if you have kids, you are not out to commit crimes, you are out to survive, that is what life does, including humans.

I am all for kicking violent people out, I am not for treating non violent humans like garbage. I am not for sending people, especially kids back to where they risk death.

There is a humanitarian crisis in Central America causing innocent people to flee. But as far as drugs, most of the opiate crisis is caused by big pharma over prescribing leading the addict buy pills from others, and or turning to heroin. But even with illegal drugs, those are not coming in across rivers, deserts or mountain ranges as a majority. The majority of the time the drugs are coming in hidden in cars, pickups and 18 wheelers hidden, but coming in through established ports. 

I have TWO Hispanic families living on both sides of me. They have lived next to me for the past 10 years, I have not had one lick of problems with them. They have kids. I am not going to rat them out or even want them deported regardless of their status. 

If you vilify people based on lack of papers, even if they are not violent, that will actually increase crime, not decrease it, but cause they will fear police and be less likely to report crime. Allowing them to live without fear will reduce crime and allow them to be more likely to report those whom should be deported whom are violent.

Just on topography the wall is a waste of money not to mention you can climb over them, or dig under them, and again, most migrants try to enter at established ports. The myth of the dangerous desert crossing is just that. It is far more likely that people will hide in the backs of trailer trucks or in car trunks. 
And boats can and are used to cross the ocean around borders too.

The POTUS is simply pandering to hate and fear  and nothing  more. Keeping violent people out is one thing, basing that on the bigoted assumption that most entering are violent and basing that on race and nationality is simply false, and inhumane regardless.

Quote:I see that many of you are confusing border control with wanting to stop immigration.

 Often the two go hand in hand 

Quote:It's a way that those who are against controlling immigration use to cloud the issue. 

And it's very rarely  wrong 

Quote: stated in my OP that I am in favor of our liberal immigration quotas and think that it is a positive for America

That's good 

Quote:Another they use is to label anyone who is in favor of border control is a racist.

  And it's very rarely  wrong 

Quote:They're tactics to shift the attention away from the real issues. 

Or what they are doing 

Quote:If some stranger came to the door of your house, said they were a refugee from another country and wanted to move in with you would you just open up the door and let him in? 

A country is not a house 

Quote:You might even be willing to take him in, but not without first knowing who he is and what his real situation is first.

A country is not a house and it's none of my business 

Quote:If you want to know what uncontrolled immigration can do to a civilization just as the Native Americansand they'll tell you.

Comparing imperialist colonization to what's going on at the US Mexican border is absurd

---

Quote:I live in the "sanctuary state" of California which refuses to aid ICE in apprehending people who are here illegally and actually seems to encourage people to come here illegally.

And ?

Quote:I'm totally in favor of allowing immigration into the US and see our liberal immigration quotas as a positive.

That's nice 

Quote:  What I don't understand is how we can exist as a nation if we don't have control over who enters the country. 

The assumption here is a nation is defined by border control 

Quote:I have a question for those who agree with the state of California and are against prosecuting those who have entered the country illegally or preventing undocumented people from crossing into the country as they wish.  What is your rationale and why is this good for us?

Better they are here then were they came from and it's not about us .

Tizheruk Wrote:Considering the alternative which would be an even greater abuse .This just comes off as weak sauce .

Considering you are Canadian, feel free to bring them north or STFU.

https://www.voanews.com/a/canada-to-step...37940.html

(January 4, 2019 at 1:51 pm)Lek Wrote: I live in the "sanctuary state" of California which refuses to aid ICE in apprehending people who are here illegally and actually seems to encourage people to come here illegally. I'm totally in favor of allowing immigration into the US and see our liberal immigration quotas as a positive.  What I don't understand is how we can exist as a nation if we don't have control over who enters the country.  I have a question for those who agree with the state of California and are against prosecuting those who have entered the country illegally or preventing undocumented people from crossing into the country as they wish.  What is your rationale and why is this good for us?

I’m trying to find a way to phrase this that will clearly convey what I think about this. So if I ramble, I apologize.

Our immigration system is deliberately complicated, and simply crossing our southern border at a port of entry is prohibitively difficult for non-US citizens. This is deliberate. People who wish to come in are forced to come through deserts, rivers, and mountains. Thousands die. And these deaths are seen as a positive by policymakers. They see it as a deterrent. Then when the migrants get here they are faced with horrible working conditions, blocked from social services, and mat be separated from their families. And these people STILL want to come here. They are that desperate.

No amount of cracking down on these communities is going to stop the migration. What states like California are doing is wise, IMO. If these communities feel safe calling the cops, then they will be safer. If they don’t, then criminals will exploit these people and hide in these communities.

If stopping this was actually the goal there’s a much easier and more effective way to do it. They come here because there’s work. Well, what if there wasn’t? Companies hire illegals because they’re cheap, they can’t complain about working conditions, and they can’t really negotiate. So let’s say instead of going after desperate people, we fine the companies that hire illegals. Hard. Let’s say $5k per illegal employee per day.

(Incidentally the reason we don’t do this is because businesses don’t want this. It gives American workers more bargaining power and certain administrations didn’t like that)

My bet is if you did this a lot of illegal immigrants would choose to leave or begin applying for legal status (which we really should make a path for). I would also bet that businesses would start pushing hard for comprehensive immigration reform.

(January 6, 2019 at 11:17 am)Jane2d Wrote:

Tizheruk Wrote:Considering the alternative which would be an even greater abuse .This just comes off as weak sauce .

Considering you are Canadian, feel free to bring them north or STFU.

https://www.voanews.com/a/canada-to-step...37940.html

1. We have taken in plenty of refugees . You know the ones you refused to take in . 

2. Red herring 

3. You assume I agree with my government . I don't 

4. No I won't STFU but maybe you should because you keep embarrassing yourself

(January 6, 2019 at 10:30 am)Amarok Wrote:

Quote:I see that many of you are confusing border control with wanting to stop immigration.

 Often the two go hand in hand 

Quote:It's a way that those who are against controlling immigration use to cloud the issue. 

And it's very rarely  wrong 

Quote: stated in my OP that I am in favor of our liberal immigration quotas and think that it is a positive for America

That's good 

Quote:Another they use is to label anyone who is in favor of border control is a racist.

  And it's very rarely  wrong 

Quote:They're tactics to shift the attention away from the real issues. 

Or what they are doing 

Quote:If some stranger came to the door of your house, said they were a refugee from another country and wanted to move in with you would you just open up the door and let him in? 

A country is not a house 

Quote:You might even be willing to take him in, but not without first knowing who he is and what his real situation is first.

A country is not a house and it's none of my business 

Quote:If you want to know what uncontrolled immigration can do to a civilization just as the Native Americansand they'll tell you.

Comparing imperialist colonization to what's going on at the US Mexican border is absurd

---

Quote:I live in the "sanctuary state" of California which refuses to aid ICE in apprehending people who are here illegally and actually seems to encourage people to come here illegally.

And ?

Quote:I'm totally in favor of allowing immigration into the US and see our liberal immigration quotas as a positive.

That's nice 

Quote:  What I don't understand is how we can exist as a nation if we don't have control over who enters the country. 

The assumption here is a nation is defined by border control 

Quote:I have a question for those who agree with the state of California and are against prosecuting those who have entered the country illegally or preventing undocumented people from crossing into the country as they wish.  What is your rationale and why is this good for us?

Better they are here then were they came from and it's not about us .

Ok. Let me get this straight. If you believe in controlling entry through the borders that means that you are against immigration and you're a racist to boot. A house is different than a country, so there is no need to verify whether or not a person is a terrorist, drug smuggler, human trafficker, felon, etc. before allowing them into the country. It's really not our business anyway. Plus they cause no danger to us because they are not imperialist colonizers. And finally, it's all about them and not about us. Phooey!

Undocumented immigrants are less likely to commit crime than native-born citizens. If those in power really care about crime prevention, maybe they should refocus their attention on building up impoverished communities, and looking with a fair eye at the wealth distribution in this country.

(January 6, 2019 at 7:34 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Undocumented immigrants are less likely to commit crime than native-born citizens.  If those in power really care about crime prevention, maybe they should refocus their attention on building up impoverished communities, and looking with a fair eye at the wealth distribution in this country.

oh you and your facts.