I always had problems with the character of God, especially YHWH. His attributes/personality reflect the harsh world of those who invented him. -The early Canaanites stole him from the Chaldeans, where he was one of a trinity, with a wife called 'Asheroth'.

The God of the gospels isn't much better.

The Love of the god of Christianity is conditional. The Christian god also threatens his beloved people with eternal suffering for not loving and obeying him. (To be fair, eternal hell isa purely Christian invention. )

This next bit may simply due to a poorly thought out idea, but it's something I've thought about over many years. I can't remember ever having had a convincing explanation from any believer.
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I am not interested in a response referring to the bible or some other religious explanation. I would really appreciate a response from one of our resident thinkers.

I was taught God isa n infinite being ,having alway existed. His attributes are also infinite. Human beings are finite, but we have an essence which is eternal. This is not the same as 'infinite'

How is it possible for a finite being to insult/disappoint or please an infinite one whose attributes are also infinite?

In such a situation, would not the love and acceptance of the creator be unconditional?

The free will argument doesn't stand up, for me: If God knows the outcome for every life, does that not abrogate free will?

We are given the choice of following god's rules and being rewarded or rejecting them and being punished. How can this be a free choice? To me, it's Hobson's choice. IE no choice.

(March 25, 2019 at 7:46 pm)fredd bear Wrote: I always had problems with the character of God

Here is a lecture on the classical conception of God. 

I'm not asking anyone to believe what he says. It does, explain, however, the traditional view of what God is and is like. It will not persuade you that it's true, but it will address some of the confusion you have, as you conflate different views.

https://mediasite.stthom.edu/Mediasite/P...7bfaaa291d

(March 25, 2019 at 2:35 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(March 25, 2019 at 9:48 am)Drich Wrote: citation?

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Matthew 7:7-8

Romans 6:13

John 3:16

Luke 6:17-49

Boru

Best post ever, as it prooves everything I had to say! In that if you read those passages it show God to be giving, just look at how mat 7 starts:
7 “Continue to ask, and God will give to you. Continue to search, and you will find. Continue to knock, and the door will open for you. 8 Yes, whoever continues to ask will receive. Whoever continues to look will find. And whoever continues to knock will have the door opened for them.

9 “Do any of you have a son? If he asked for bread, would you give him a rock? 10 Or if he asked for a fish, would you give him a snake? Of course not! 11 You people are so bad, but you still know how to give good things to your children. So surely your heavenly Father will give good things to those who ask him.

How much more giving does God need to be to make you douche bags happy?

(March 26, 2019 at 10:27 am)Drich Wrote:

(March 25, 2019 at 2:35 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Matthew 7:7-8

Romans 6:13

John 3:16

Luke 6:17-49

Boru

Best post ever, as it prooves everything I had to say! In that if you read those passages it show God to be giving, just look at how mat 7 starts:
7 “Continue to ask, and God will give to you. Continue to search, and you will find. Continue to knock, and the door will open for you. 8 Yes, whoever continues to ask will receive. Whoever continues to look will find. And whoever continues to knock will have the door opened for them.

9 “Do any of you have a son? If he asked for bread, would you give him a rock? 10 Or if he asked for a fish, would you give him a snake? Of course not! 11 You people are so bad, but you still know how to give good things to your children. So surely your heavenly Father will give good things to those who ask him.

How much more giving does God need to be to make you douche bags happy?

But God makes the requirement that he be asked.  If a requirement is involved, God's behaviour is not altruistic.

Boru

(March 26, 2019 at 10:34 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(March 26, 2019 at 10:27 am)Drich Wrote: Best post ever, as it prooves everything I had to say! In that if you read those passages it show God to be giving, just look at how mat 7 starts:
7 “Continue to ask, and God will give to you. Continue to search, and you will find. Continue to knock, and the door will open for you. 8 Yes, whoever continues to ask will receive. Whoever continues to look will find. And whoever continues to knock will have the door opened for them.

9 “Do any of you have a son? If he asked for bread, would you give him a rock? 10 Or if he asked for a fish, would you give him a snake? Of course not! 11 You people are so bad, but you still know how to give good things to your children. So surely your heavenly Father will give good things to those who ask him.

How much more giving does God need to be to make you douche bags happy?

But God makes the requirement that he be asked.  If a requirement is involved, God's behaviour is not altruistic.

Boru

Do you have a magical definition that differs from the dictionary definition of altruism I provided? 

If you do not know here's the definition provided by google:
the belief in or practice of disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others.

Now show me where being encouraged to ask in the definition above, disqualifies any altruistic activity.

I see an offer statng if you ask for help God will give it to you as a father who give his boy a loaf of bread rather than a stone. In a sense not only is God being altruistic in your selected passage he is extending his giving with the love of a father to a child.

What monster would twist that into something evil or burdensome?

No, I'm using the definition you provided.  If you don't understand what  'disinterested' and 'selfless' mean, I'm afraid I can't help you. 

Read the scriptures you quoted.  God will provide all of these things if ask, if you search, if you knock.  That's not altruism, that's quid pro quo.

Boru

Believers like this are the posterchildren for the antitheist argument.  Up is down, right is left, love is hate.

(March 26, 2019 at 6:37 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: Believers like this are the posterchildren for the antitheist argument.  Up is down, right is left, love is hate.

That's because words don't mean what they mean - they mean what we need them to mean at a given point in time (this is, of course, highly variable).  I'd go into more detail, but I have to take a Saturday and get ready for my annual philharmonic.

Boru

(March 25, 2019 at 9:03 am)wyzas Wrote:

(March 25, 2019 at 8:59 am)Rogue Wrote: If you take into context the post I was replying to, I am saying that if you do not take the buy-bull literally the only other way is soul searching (theist talk). Soul-searching leads to SPAG.

I do not believe in spirits or woo woo of any kind. I have been taught to meet people where they are, so I may speak some theist talk, but I am not a theist at all. I used to be SBNR (spiritual but not religious) then I came to my senses, I am full-blooded atheist.

I hope that clarifies things for you.

Cool. Every thing but SPAG?

I am trying to say that SPAG is a result from not taking the buy-bull literally. I was SPAGing when I became atheist. I no longer SPAG.

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(March 26, 2019 at 10:34 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(March 26, 2019 at 10:27 am)Drich Wrote: Best post ever, as it prooves everything I had to say! In that if you read those passages it show God to be giving, just look at how mat 7 starts:
7 “Continue to ask, and God will give to you. Continue to search, and you will find. Continue to knock, and the door will open for you. 8 Yes, whoever continues to ask will receive. Whoever continues to look will find. And whoever continues to knock will have the door opened for them.

9 “Do any of you have a son? If he asked for bread, would you give him a rock? 10 Or if he asked for a fish, would you give him a snake? Of course not! 11 You people are so bad, but you still know how to give good things to your children. So surely your heavenly Father will give good things to those who ask him.

How much more giving does God need to be to make you douche bags happy?

But God makes the requirement that he be asked.  If a requirement is involved, God's behaviour is not altruistic.

Boru

Yelp, and many times you ask you do NOT receive. Sometimes the answer is NO. NO I will not save your child from dying. I won't help you find a job, but your car keys are in the kitchen.

(March 27, 2019 at 6:51 am)Rogue Wrote:

(March 25, 2019 at 9:03 am)wyzas Wrote: Cool. Every thing but SPAG?

I am trying to say that SPAG is a result from not taking the buy-bull literally. I was SPAGing when I became atheist. I no longer SPAG.

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(March 26, 2019 at 10:34 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: But God makes the requirement that he be asked.  If a requirement is involved, God's behaviour is not altruistic.

Boru

Yelp, and many times you ask you do NOT receive. Sometimes the answer is NO. NO I will not save your child from dying. I won't help you find a job, but your car keys are in the kitchen.

That's actually beside the point.  The argument isn't whether God does things for people but whether he does them altruistically.

Boru