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RE: Is God Altruistic? Is God Happy?
March 28, 2019 at 11:44 am
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Is God Altruistic? Is God Happy?
March 28, 2019 at 11:56 am
(This post was last modified: March 28, 2019 at 11:56 am by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
Quote:Since God is immutable, God can't feel differently towards Jacob than he does towards Essau. It can only be that he is the same towards both of them, but both Jacob and Esau experience it differently. Since God's immutability is a fundamental orthodox belief, passages of scripture written of in such away are recognized more metaphorically than literally, as expression of the limits of human language when speaking of God.
Then what is the point of speaking about God at all? Since human language is necessarily limited, then EVERYTHING said by or about God is a metaphor. 'God created the heavens and the earth' actually means 'God likes extra cheese on his burritos' and 'I am the lord thy God' is a metaphor for, 'Must dash, I'm late for a dental appointment'.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: Is God Altruistic? Is God Happy?
March 28, 2019 at 11:59 am
Magic book is right because of how it gets it consistently wrong, and whatever you find in magic book means the opposite of what it says, and you can check that against the contents of magic book.
Psssh, errybody knows that.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Is God Altruistic? Is God Happy?
March 28, 2019 at 12:39 pm
(March 28, 2019 at 11:56 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Quote:Since God is immutable, God can't feel differently towards Jacob than he does towards Essau. It can only be that he is the same towards both of them, but both Jacob and Esau experience it differently. Since God's immutability is a fundamental orthodox belief, passages of scripture written of in such away are recognized more metaphorically than literally, as expression of the limits of human language when speaking of God.
Then what is the point of speaking about God at all? Since human language is necessarily limited, then EVERYTHING said by or about God is a metaphor. 'God created the heavens and the earth' actually means 'God likes extra cheese on his burritos' and 'I am the lord thy God' is a metaphor for, 'Must dash, I'm late for a dental appointment'.
Boru
Something being a metaphor doesn’t mean it can mean anything we want it to mean.
Example
The classroom was a zoo.
Jamal was a pig at dinner.
We understand the meaning of such metaphors quite clearly, even though we recognize the expressions aren’t literal.
Jamal was a pig at dinner, can’t mean Jamal didn’t eat dinner, or barely ate his dinner, or just picked at his food.
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RE: Is God Altruistic? Is God Happy?
March 28, 2019 at 1:57 pm
(March 28, 2019 at 12:39 pm)Acrobat Wrote: (March 28, 2019 at 11:56 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Then what is the point of speaking about God at all? Since human language is necessarily limited, then EVERYTHING said by or about God is a metaphor. 'God created the heavens and the earth' actually means 'God likes extra cheese on his burritos' and 'I am the lord thy God' is a metaphor for, 'Must dash, I'm late for a dental appointment'.
Boru
Something being a metaphor doesn’t mean it can mean anything we want it to mean.
Example
The classroom was a zoo.
Jamal was a pig at dinner.
We understand the meaning of such metaphors quite clearly, even though we recognize the expressions aren’t literal.
Jamal was a pig at dinner, can’t mean Jamal didn’t eat dinner, or barely ate his dinner, or just picked at his food.
Which has precious little to do with Bible-speak. I've found that Bibliophiles resort to the metaphor argument to explain away uncomfortable verses. 'God is love, but God said he hated Esau, so clearly he didn't mean "hate".'
Come on.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: Is God Altruistic? Is God Happy?
March 28, 2019 at 2:12 pm
In their defense, not all of them. Some are very okay with god hating this and that. That doesn't mean that they won't lose their shit over whatever verses give them shit, ofc.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Is God Altruistic? Is God Happy?
March 28, 2019 at 2:15 pm
(This post was last modified: March 28, 2019 at 2:25 pm by Acrobat.)
(March 28, 2019 at 1:57 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (March 28, 2019 at 12:39 pm)Acrobat Wrote: Something being a metaphor doesn’t mean it can mean anything we want it to mean.
Example
The classroom was a zoo.
Jamal was a pig at dinner.
We understand the meaning of such metaphors quite clearly, even though we recognize the expressions aren’t literal.
Jamal was a pig at dinner, can’t mean Jamal didn’t eat dinner, or barely ate his dinner, or just picked at his food.
Which has precious little to do with Bible-speak. I've found that Bibliophiles resort to the metaphor argument to explain away uncomfortable verses. 'God is love, but God said he hated Esau, so clearly he didn't mean "hate".'
Come on.
Boru
I don't know want Bible-speak means. The bible is a book, containing a variety of stories, that rely heavily on parables, and metaphors allegories, etc......
Orthodox believers, hold to variety of fundamental beliefs about the nature of God, such as omniscience, omnibenovelent, , immutability, etc.. So if a biblical passage appears to contradict any of these fundamental aspects, it implies either that passage is false, relies on an early but false conception of God, that the writer of such passages didn't hold to an immutable view of God's nature, or they did, and is expressing it non-literally.
It should also be said that Malachi also contains passage indicating God's immutability: "Malachi 3:6 ESV
“For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed."
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RE: Is God Altruistic? Is God Happy?
March 28, 2019 at 2:33 pm
(This post was last modified: March 28, 2019 at 2:35 pm by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
(March 28, 2019 at 2:15 pm)Acrobat Wrote: (March 28, 2019 at 1:57 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Which has precious little to do with Bible-speak. I've found that Bibliophiles resort to the metaphor argument to explain away uncomfortable verses. 'God is love, but God said he hated Esau, so clearly he didn't mean "hate".'
Come on.
Boru
I don't know want Bible-speak means. The bible is a book, containing a variety of stories, that rely heavily on parables, and metaphors allegories, etc......
Orthodox believers, hold to variety of fundamental beliefs about the nature of God, such as omniscience, omnibenovelent, , immutability, etc.. So if a biblical passage appears to contradict any of these fundamental aspects, it implies either that passage is false, relies on an early but false conception of God, that the writer of such passages didn't hold to an immutable view of God's nature, or they did, and is expressing it non-literally.
It should also be said that Malachi also contains passage indicating God's immutability: "Malachi 3:6 ESV
“For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed."
That's a metaphor. When God says he doesn't change, he means, 'I am mutable as fuck.' See, puny mortals that we are, we simply cannot grasp what God says when he claims '...I the Lord do not change', so it clearly means something else.
Boru
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RE: Is God Altruistic? Is God Happy?
March 28, 2019 at 2:34 pm
(This post was last modified: March 28, 2019 at 2:37 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
There are parables, metaphor, and allegory.....and then there are antonyms.
If you want to insist that magic book is full of coded antonymous references, acro, have at it. The rest of us, and the rest of the christians you would disagree with, just haven't found the right box of crackerjacks yet, I suppose.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Is God Altruistic? Is God Happy?
March 28, 2019 at 2:52 pm
(March 28, 2019 at 2:34 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: There are parables, metaphor, and allegory.....and then there are antonyms.
If you want to insist that magic book is full of coded antonymous references, acro, have at it. The rest of us, and the rest of the christians you would disagree with, just haven't found the right box of crackerjacks yet, I suppose.
The write of Malachi himself confirms that god in unchanging.
Malachi 3:6
“For I the Lord do not change."
Your interpretation of the meaning of passage implies that the writer contradicts himself, by suggesting god is changing, that one minute he feels hatred towards Esau, and other minute he feels love towards Jacob. That when he thinks of Jacob he feels love, that when he thinks of Esau he feels hate.
It's one thing to say the writer didn't believe God is not changing, therefore he meant it literally here. But the writer indicated that God is unchanging, therefore unless he's contradicting himself, the passage here in context of the writers views, is not literal.
When I read a book, or a story, or novel, from a writer, I read them in context, not just in parts, or by resorting to quote mining to justify an interpretation.
Now it's very well possible that some writers of scripture may not have held a view of God as immutable, but that's contrary to the variety of attributes assigned to God by orthodox believers, and would therefore be seen as false or premature conception of God.
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