(April 17, 2019 at 8:31 am)wyzas Wrote: Nope, not at 32 hours a week. If that's what people want to do, fine, but don't bitch.

No one censors me.

I have the right to complain about anything I want for any reason.

(April 17, 2019 at 8:34 am)Kit Wrote:

(April 17, 2019 at 8:31 am)wyzas Wrote: Nope, not at 32 hours a week. If that's what people want to do, fine, but don't bitch.

No one censors me.  

I have the right to complain about anything I want for any reason.

Your'e right. Just don't get you're panties in a bunch when people don't listen.

Without fully catching up in the thread. I think we should let the "American dream" die and come up with a better one. If the "American dream" is to be part of the 1% it doesn't statistically make you happier. If the "American Dream" is equality of opportunity that's shit too, not as bad shit, but still not great. "The pursuit of Happiness" really isn't about chasing the next quick fix or high. Most people I've spoken with equate the American Dream with freedom and the pursuit of happiness. That to me is a little ridiculous. I think we should better meter our goals and aim the American Dream at something more truely beneficial and long term and attainable. Any suggestions?

(April 17, 2019 at 8:31 am)wyzas Wrote:

(April 17, 2019 at 8:14 am)Amarok Wrote: Then a third then a fourth or we could just acknowledge the system is broken

Nope, not at 32 hours a week. If that's what people want to do, fine, but don't bitch.

The hours don't matter

(April 17, 2019 at 8:53 am)tackattack Wrote: I think we should better meter our goals and aim the American Dream at something more truely beneficial and long term and attainable. Any suggestions?

Living within our environmental limits would be nice.  However, I still like the ideals of equality under the law and equal opportunities.

(April 18, 2019 at 7:48 am)Amarok Wrote:

(April 17, 2019 at 8:31 am)wyzas Wrote: Nope, not at 32 hours a week. If that's what people want to do, fine, but don't bitch.

The hours don't matter

They certainly did for me.

(April 17, 2019 at 8:53 am)tackattack Wrote: If the "American dream" is to be part of the 1% it doesn't statistically make you happier. If the "American Dream" is equality of opportunity that's shit too, not as bad shit, but still not great.  "The pursuit of Happiness"  really isn't about chasing the next quick fix or high.

I wondered about this too. 

From the responses here, people seem to associate the American dream with making money. If that's what it's always referred to, then I think it already shows why it's doomed. 

Quote:Any suggestions?

Moral, rather than economic, progress. To be the wisest, kindest, most compassionate, most open-minded person one can be. 

One thing I've noticed about science fiction is that progress seems usually to be associated with detaching oneself from the earth. Going far into space or some cyber world is deemed an advance. This is the opposite of a happy goal, in my opinion. Better to be able to sit still in one's garden for a long time, enthralled by the colors and smells and changing light and busy life all around. 

To be increasingly joyful in the world; to find greater pleasure.

(April 18, 2019 at 7:59 am)Thoreauvian Wrote:

(April 17, 2019 at 8:53 am)tackattack Wrote: I think we should better meter our goals and aim the American Dream at something more truely beneficial and long term and attainable. Any suggestions?

Living within our environmental limits would be nice.  However, I still like the ideals of equality under the law and equal opportunities.

I agree equal opportunity is better than tyranny. I would prefer equality of outcome to equality of opportunity. That hydra seems too messy to tackle one head at a time so I guess equality of opportunity steps closer to that direction.

(April 18, 2019 at 8:23 am)Belaqua Wrote:

(April 17, 2019 at 8:53 am)tackattack Wrote: If the "American dream" is to be part of the 1% it doesn't statistically make you happier. If the "American Dream" is equality of opportunity that's shit too, not as bad shit, but still not great.  "The pursuit of Happiness"  really isn't about chasing the next quick fix or high.

I wondered about this too. 

From the responses here, people seem to associate the American dream with making money. If that's what it's always referred to, then I think it already shows why it's doomed. 

Quote:Any suggestions?

Moral, rather than economic, progress. To be the wisest, kindest, most compassionate, most open-minded person one can be. 

One thing I've noticed about science fiction is that progress seems usually to be associated with detaching oneself from the earth. Going far into space or some cyber world is deemed an advance. This is the opposite of a happy goal, in my opinion. Better to be able to sit still in one's garden for a long time, enthralled by the colors and smells and changing light and busy life all around. 

To be increasingly joyful in the world; to find greater pleasure.

That's a deeper happiness than surface, but it still individual happiness. I like the idea of moral progress, but that can't be had without equally progressing responsibility, IMO. Maybe something like the ethical burden of respecting others for their individuality and seeking to help raise their level of true contentment and happiness to a higher level. idk, something like that.

When I was in high school I heard my classmates talking about the future.

"If I can just make ten thousand a year I'll be set." Today it would one hundred thousand at minimum.

(April 18, 2019 at 8:11 am)wyzas Wrote:

(April 18, 2019 at 7:48 am)Amarok Wrote: The hours don't matter

They certainly did for me.

I doubt that