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RE: Atheism is just as irrational as Theism.
October 11, 2011 at 4:42 pm
@ sonofodin
Your existence on this site is an exercise in pointlessness. Go wind up some theists with your bullshit.
"Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds."
Einstein
When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down happy. They told me I didn't understand the assignment. I told them they didn't understand life.
- John Lennon
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RE: Atheism is just as irrational as Theism.
October 11, 2011 at 4:53 pm
Atheism is never a concept, sorry. Any other proffessed belief might be, but an abstination is never anything but just that.
FNM: The only way the proofs already made don't work is if you're saying you have no position on God & or gods. Because it is that position which requires another position to justify itself. Now I might agree if you say you have no position.
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RE: Atheism is just as irrational as Theism.
October 11, 2011 at 5:20 pm
(October 11, 2011 at 4:53 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Atheism is never a concept, sorry. Any other proffessed belief might be, but an abstination is never anything but just that.
Appending "Sorry" to the end of a nonsensical assertion does not dilute the stench of pig-headedness borne of despaeration, fr0d0.
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RE: Atheism is just as irrational as Theism.
October 11, 2011 at 8:35 pm
Not this again....
It is not up to atheists to define a god then disbelieve in it.
It is up to theists to define their god. If they can't provide demonstrable evidence and/or reasoned argument to support THEIR claim that a god by THEIR definition exists, the disbelief in that god is completely rational.
So far, none of the gods that have ever been defined to me by theists have ever met their burden of proof.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Atheism is just as irrational as Theism.
October 11, 2011 at 11:37 pm
(October 11, 2011 at 12:07 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: The theist will defend the rationalism of their concept, as it is rationally realised. The atheist cannot defend any concept because his concept isn't rationalised: it's formed from a lack of understanding of something.
That is a terrible, see-through and empty handed argument.
It is the equivalent of saying that theism is rational because the theist is intelligent enough to see the immaterial, invisible, magical omni-beautiful emperors new clothes. The atheist can't see them and therefore their position isn't rational.
Come on lets be serious for a moment. The atheist just points out that theism is vacuous. It is the defintion of rational to base your beleifs on the objective status of reality and our ability to comprehend it through our own senses, but irrational to throw that aside in favour of mysticism and magic.
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence"...Doug McLeod.
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RE: Atheism is just as irrational as Theism.
October 11, 2011 at 11:49 pm
(This post was last modified: October 11, 2011 at 11:55 pm by Faith No More.)
(October 11, 2011 at 4:53 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: FNM: The only way the proofs already made don't work is if you're saying you have no position on God & or gods. Because it is that position which requires another position to justify itself. Now I might agree if you say you have no position.
How so? I'm not really following you...
Edit: Being agnostic on a non specific god, I have no position on that, but I still lack belief. The OP mentions that god is such a vague concept that we cannot have or lack a belief in it. My previous point was that the theists define their gods, giving us the ability to lack belief in them.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Atheism is just as irrational as Theism.
October 12, 2011 at 3:30 am
(October 11, 2011 at 11:37 pm)Captain Scarlet Wrote: It is the equivalent of saying that theism is rational because the theist is intelligent enough to see the immaterial, invisible, magical omni-beautiful emperors new clothes. The atheist can't see them and therefore their position isn't rational. You completely miss the point, but that is to be expected because you don't understand the subject you're objecting to, which is the point.
(October 11, 2011 at 11:37 pm)Captain Scarlet Wrote: Come on lets be serious for a moment. The atheist just points out that theism is vacuous. It is the defintion of rational to base your beleifs on the objective status of reality and our ability to comprehend it through our own senses, but irrational to throw that aside in favour of mysticism and magic. It's rational if you have adopted an irrational position. That is: materialism over function as your descriptor for everything. You flail at knocking down something you see as woo and subsequenty fail to see what the rational point that POV is making.
(October 11, 2011 at 11:49 pm)Faith No More Wrote: (October 11, 2011 at 4:53 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: FNM: The only way the proofs already made don't work is if you're saying you have no position on God & or gods. Because it is that position which requires another position to justify itself. Now I might agree if you say you have no position.
How so? I'm not really following you...
Edit: Being agnostic on a non specific god, I have no position on that, but I still lack belief. The OP mentions that god is such a vague concept that we cannot have or lack a belief in it. My previous point was that the theists define their gods, giving us the ability to lack belief in them. Yeah the OP is ignorant of God, so he would have to say that, but he is correct in saying it, because he really has no idea. He's just being honest.
Conversely you, adopt a position that he would not: that you understand fully the God concept that believers profess, and take the more rational view, which is of course a joke. I define my God to you but you struggle to grasp it. Instead of saying: "I don't know" you say: "I know".
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RE: Atheism is just as irrational as Theism.
October 12, 2011 at 4:19 am
(This post was last modified: October 12, 2011 at 4:22 am by Faith No More.)
fr0d0 Wrote:I define my God to you but you struggle to grasp it.
Once again you merely assert this without backing it up to show it's true. You're not falling back to the old 'if you understood Yaweh you'd be a christian' argument are you? If not, what evidence do you have that I cannot understand your god?
(October 12, 2011 at 3:30 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Yeah the OP is ignorant of God, so he would have to say that, but he is correct in saying it, because he really has no idea. He's just being honest.
If you read the link he posted, that is not what he is saying at all.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Atheism is just as irrational as Theism.
October 12, 2011 at 4:43 am
Ok FNM: answer me these questions for a starter:
Is faith blind?
Is God love; good; our moral guide?
Did his sacrifice for us enable us to be like him?
---
You mean the secular dictionary definition he posted??
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RE: Atheism is just as irrational as Theism.
October 12, 2011 at 4:49 am
Is faith blind? usually, yes... blind or retarded.
Is God love; good; our moral guide? No... There os no reason to assume this.
Did his sacrifice for us enable us to be like him? No, there was no sacrifice.
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