I 'dialogued' with some local JWs several years ago. I agreed to a meeting and there was one guy, and the second time there were two guys, and third time was at the Kingdom Hall with three guys, at least one of them was in the hierarchy. They pointed to a verse in Isaiah that referred to the 'circle of the Earth'. showing that the prophet knew the Earth was round. I pointed out that circles are flat. We went round and round over that.

Quote:Okay, I apologize for the name calling,

Fair enough.

Quote: but with all due respect, this DID happen to me earlier this week,

If you say so.

 

Quote:and your post was quite insulting.

I'm crushed.

Quote:Also, it isn't like this is the first time this has happened to me. I think almost every time I've posted here I've gotten a rude, or at the very least, an insensitive response from someone, and I'm beginning to question how nice this community is.

People are mean to you on the internet.  Gosh.

 

Quote:Allow me respond to your points:

Can't very well stop you, can I?

Quote:1/2) I was waiting at the train station for my train to arrive when the preachers approached me. Within a few minutes of them speaking to me, my train arrived. I told them if they'd like to board the train with me, I'd love to continue talking with them, and they obliged. So yes, we had a lengthy exchange on the train and I was not late for work. They got off the train before I did and I got the feeling that they were headed back to a nearby church or something.

That's plausible. 

Quote:3) There were two of them, and I addressed both of them at different points of the conversation. I guess it technically would have been correct to say, "One of them said... and I responded..."

So now 'some' has become 'two'.

 

Quote:but I didn't think people were going to be probing through my post with a fine-toothed comb so they could interrogate me.

New to the internet, are you?

Quote:Yes, I did say "He", they didn't say the argument in unison like a hive-mind or something.

Make up your mind.

Quote:4) Who says I didn't look elsewhere for a response?? Honestly, posting here is a last resort for me because it usually requires writing out lengthy posts and engaging in a lengthy dialogue with different members - it's honestly a very time-consuming endeavor for me, and that's why I post so infrequently. I would much prefer to simply find a video on YouTube or an article written by an atheist that outlines the answers I'm looking for. In this case, I need a critique of a random bible verse and I'm really not finding anything out there of much help. This is simply too much of a niche, specific issue for an internet search. That's why I came here.

Really, this place is your LAST resort?  With all the billions and billions of pages on the net you couldn't find anything substantive to help you out?  Colour me unconvinced.

Quote:Anyways, I came here hoping to have a discussion about the issue at hand, and I'm finding that instead I just have to waste a bunch of time arguing with people over the validity of my experience.

 
You've posted less than 30 times in four years.  I really don't think you're interested in discussion.

Quote:If you have a good reason as to why Job 36:27-28 is an underwhelming verse to point to as advanced scientific revelation, I'd love to hear your response and engage with you, and I'd be extremely appreciative.

'Google'.

 

Quote:On the other hand, if you think I'm yanking your balls and am fabricating my story, please post somewhere else, I'm beyond frustrated at this point, and you're really not helping...

I apologize deeply and sincerely if I gave you the impression that I was trying to help.

Boru

(June 20, 2019 at 4:21 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: I 'dialogued' with some local JWs several years ago. I agreed to a meeting and there was one guy, and the second time there were two guys, and third time was at the Kingdom Hall with three guys, at least one of them was in the hierarchy. They pointed to a verse in Isaiah that referred to the 'circle of the Earth'. showing that the prophet knew the Earth was round. I pointed out that circles are flat. We went round and round over that.

I know, it's incredible how underwhelming when they point to these things as advanced scientific knowledge. I guess that's what's troubles me about this verse. With the others that they cite it's oftentimes not difficult to go "Whoa, hold up there! That's a load of BS..." and point out a flaw, but with this one I'm honestly just kind of stumped, I'm kind of surprised as it seems that the bible has a pretty accurate depiction of how the water cycle works. At first I thought maybe they used the word "distilled" because the verse they read to me came from the New International Version of the Bible, so I thought that maybe older versions wouldn't reflect our understanding of the water cycle, but I looked up the verse in the King James version, and even it seems to use similar terminology which describes water as evaporating, and condensing into rain, and from what I've read, humanity never had an accurate understanding of the water cycle until the 1700's. Still though, my gut reaction is that there's a major problem with using this as scientific revelation, and it frustrates me that I can't put my finger on it.

Job 36:27-28
27 “He draws up the drops of water,
    which distill as rain to the streams;
28 the clouds pour down their moisture
    and abundant showers fall on mankind.

Job 36:27-28
27 “He draws up the drops of water,
    which distill as rain to the streams;
28 the clouds pour down their moisture
    and abundant showers fall on mankind."

Anybody that had boiled water away in a pot then saw the mist rising form a lake could have come to this conclusion.

Not a peep from you in four years and then BAM, a conundrum right between the eyes. 

How do you know 27 isn't talking about pissing?

(June 20, 2019 at 10:09 pm)wyzas Wrote: Not a peep from you in four years and then BAM, a conundrum right between the eyes. 

How do you know 27 isn't talking about pissing?

How about I piss in your mouth?

(June 20, 2019 at 10:16 pm)Hungry Hungry Hippo Wrote:

(June 20, 2019 at 10:09 pm)wyzas Wrote: Not a peep from you in four years and then BAM, a conundrum right between the eyes. 

How do you know 27 isn't talking about pissing?

How about I piss in your mouth?

Have you been eating magic mushrooms?

(June 20, 2019 at 2:58 pm)Hungry Hungry Hippo Wrote: Next time that's brought up, how should I respond?

I guess I don't understand why you'd want to engage them at all. 

Since you don't expect to learn from them, and it's unlikely they'll change their minds about anything, I'd probably just stay quiet. 

My experience has been that when approached "That's not for me," is usually enough. "I don't want to talk to you," is the most extreme thing I've had to say. 

Or is there some pleasure for you in arguing with these people?

(June 20, 2019 at 10:32 pm)Belaqua Wrote:

(June 20, 2019 at 2:58 pm)Hungry Hungry Hippo Wrote: Next time that's brought up, how should I respond?

I guess I don't understand why you'd want to engage them at all. 

Since you don't expect to learn from them, and it's unlikely they'll change their minds about anything, I'd probably just stay quiet. 

My experience has been that when approached "That's not for me," is usually enough. "I don't want to talk to you," is the most extreme thing I've had to say. 

Or is there some pleasure for you in arguing with these people?

Well, I did learn from them. They introduced me to an apologetic that I'd never before encountered and they forced me to re-examine and strengthen my point of view. Engaging with people you disagree with is good for you. Also, I think that conversations of this nature need to take place between religious people and atheists much more often. That's how we create a less religious world.

(June 20, 2019 at 10:46 pm)Hungry Hungry Hippo Wrote: Also, I think that conversations of this nature need to take place between religious people and atheists much more often. That's how we create a less religious world.

Critical examination of an issue can lead to a greater understanding for both parties involved.

But I have one question: why would you want to make the world less religious? From my point of view, we need to make the world more secular... not less religious. Let people have their beliefs. Most of the time it doesn't create any bother for us. But when it does... a more secular world addresses these issues.

You should communicate to argue the issues... not make people "less religious"...

You need to be careful trying to change people's minds like that. You know how Christians often don't care if they are full of shit liars who misrepresent themselves? You don't want to be an atheist version of that, do you?

Therefore you should strive for honesty in your communications. It's not your job to change the way people think. Do your best to tell them the truth, and let them change their own minds.