But seriously folks, an ability to work with others is a key survival trait.

Coveting is a weird one. It basically means you want things other people have, but as long as you don't steal things, it should be viewed as a somewhat positive thing. When I was a kid, I coveted a cool bike that my friend had. In response I....got myself a cool bike once I saved up enough money.

It's not only individual ancestors in our past that had qualities that helped them survive, but peoples, cultures, and ethnicities.

The lust to conquer and rule others is such a trait (one possessed by certain cultures). You get guys like Genghis Khan who basically seeded half of Asia. But one must also consider Khan's lackeys who are probably well-represented in the gene pool. Then you have to consider those genetic lines that came to an abrupt end because of Khan's rule.

Someone mentioned promiscuity as being "undesirable" but I've always found it to be a very desirable, very "giving" trait. A trait that creates much happiness. Worse is the tendency to rape or steal/create concubines. But these contribute to the proliferation of a gene pool as well as anything else.

Deceptiveness can keep one alive, especially in a pinch. Honesty can lose you your head even more quickly (this was especially true in the ancient world).

And while we're speaking of the ancients, conformity was a key survival apparatus for millions upon millions.

Lack of empathy can allow you to do what needs to be done to survive.

Servility can make a person tolerable to those who might otherwise kill him/her.

Cannibalism.

Just don't eat the brain. That's how you get messed up.

(June 21, 2019 at 6:18 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Lack of empathy can allow you to do what needs to be done to survive.

I've read the hypothesis that psychopaths aren't broken, they're predators of our own species. Not all of them have predatory behavior, but they can benefit from their lack of empathy.

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(June 21, 2019 at 6:18 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Someone mentioned promiscuity as being "undesirable" but I've always found it to be a very desirable, very "giving" trait. A trait that creates much happiness. Worse is the tendency to rape or steal/create concubines. But these contribute to the proliferation of a gene pool as well as anything else.

As for promiscuity, I think it's taboo in some cultures because our offspring require a lot of care. They're useless until they're grown. A pair of parents stand a better chance of raising a child. Jealousy toward a competitor for a partner's attention helps ensure that your children get the care they need. But, like Genghis Khan, people that have children by many different partners are more likely to spread their genes. The trick is to keep them alive. He had the resources to do that. 

So, I'm adding jealousy to the list of undesirable traits that lead to survival and the continuation of our species.

The same impulse that leads to bigotry probably evolved out of a self-preservatory instinct and halfway-decent method of managing our Monkeyspheres. Trying to care about everyone is really hard, and literally the best way you can overcome it is by just caring about large groups of people in the abstract. If you can try and limit your tribe, the whole thing becomes a whole lot easier to handle. Innocent people get fucked over by it? Well, they're not part of my tribe, so it's not my problem.

Yeah, tribalism helps small groups survive. It's when we try to spread the message that we're all one people, and not a bunch of isolated groups, that our species runs into problems. Because the Human mind can only care about a limited number of people.

One of the uglier sides of tribalism is when people say "They're taking our women". Like women are a resource, instead of fellow adults that can make decisions for themselves.

(June 21, 2019 at 10:15 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Yeah, tribalism helps small groups survive. It's when we try to spread the message that we're all one people, and not a bunch of isolated groups, that our species runs into problems. Because the Human mind can only care about a limited number of people.

Correct - about 150 people. This is Dunbar's Number.

(June 21, 2019 at 10:15 pm)Chad32 Wrote: One of the uglier sides of tribalism is when people say "They're taking our women". Like women are a resource, instead of fellow adults that can make decisions for themselves.

Might also explain the uglier underbelly of patriarchy. It's easier to keep it under 150 people if you're less inclined to think of women as people.