We all know that "Israel" is a religious state for jewish and just for jewish

As irreligious people  .. Would not it be contradictory if we support that state against the palestinian liberation movements?

(June 27, 2019 at 2:06 am)zainab Wrote: We all know that "Israel" is a religious state for jewish and just for jewish

As irreligious people  .. Would not it be contradictory if we support that state against the palestinian liberation movements?

As an atheist, I have nothing to do with supporting either side. There will never be peace in the Mideast until both sides stop claiming that the land is exclusively theirs because God gave it to them. 

(June 27, 2019 at 2:06 am)zainab Wrote: We all know that "Israel" is a religious state for jewish and just for jewish

What do you mean "we"? I don't think that's true. 

It's supposed to be a democracy, and non-Jewish people live there.

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(June 27, 2019 at 2:51 am)Gwaithmir Wrote: There will never be peace in the Mideast until both sides stop claiming that the land is exclusively theirs because God gave it to them.  

I don't think the Palestinians claim this. They only claim, correctly, that they have lived there a long time.

(June 27, 2019 at 3:59 am)Belaqua Wrote:

(June 27, 2019 at 2:06 am)zainab Wrote: We all know that "Israel" is a religious state for jewish and just for jewish

What do you mean "we"? I don't think that's true. 

It's supposed to be a democracy, and non-Jewish people live there.

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(June 27, 2019 at 2:51 am)Gwaithmir Wrote: There will never be peace in the Mideast until both sides stop claiming that the land is exclusively theirs because God gave it to them.  

I don't think the Palestinians claim this. They only claim, correctly, that they have lived there a long time.

Nope sorry, it is about religion for both sides. Both have backers that do claim their God gave them that land, it doesn't have to be every single one claiming that, but just enough to gain the support of people with money. Even our right wing Christians here in the states have religious reasons for politically backing Israel. In the book of revelations according to many evangelicals Jews will get a nation and that will signal the "end times". 

All three religions stem from prior Canaanite polytheism. Yahweh prior to being elevated to the one true God was a lesser god in the divine family under the head God "El". Hebrews simply took the character and started a new monotheistic religion from it. Christianity was simply the claim that a savior would come in their time. Islam was the third attempt to get the word of the "God of Abraham" correct. 

I really think it is a mistake to underestimate the influence all three religions have on politics and conflict in that region. Liberal theists and even liberal atheists should not try to ignore or downplay the influence religion has on the world.

And the truth is in any case, both trying to claim that land is stupid to me considering prior polytheism gave birth to all three religions. If enough Jews and Muslims in Mesopotamia got DNA tests, they'd find out they are far more related than they would want to admit. That is why I really would call a religion the only thing it is, a religion. Religions are not a race, not an ethnicity, or a national geography. One cannot escape their facial features or skin tone, we have no choice in that. But one can grow up to accept or reject the claims parents or a society may sell them.

The problem with Palestine, as with a decent chunk of this planet is, it is infested with humans!

(June 27, 2019 at 6:59 am)no one Wrote: The problem with Palestine, as with a decent chunk of this planet is, it is infested with humans!

Funny how 3 religions all started out in that same region, all have the same God of Abraham, but somehow magically each one claims they got the right holy book.

(June 27, 2019 at 6:35 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(June 27, 2019 at 3:59 am)Belaqua Wrote: What do you mean "we"? I don't think that's true. 

It's supposed to be a democracy, and non-Jewish people live there.

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I don't think the Palestinians claim this. They only claim, correctly, that they have lived there a long time.

Nope sorry, it is about religion for both sides. Both have backers that do claim their God gave them that land, it doesn't have to be every single one claiming that, but just enough to gain the support of people with money. Even our right wing Christians here in the states have religious reasons for politically backing Israel. In the book of revelations according to many evangelicals Jews will get a nation and that will signal the "end times". 

All three religions stem from prior Canaanite polytheism. Yahweh prior to being elevated to the one true God was a lesser god in the divine family under the head God "El". Hebrews simply took the character and started a new monotheistic religion from it. Christianity was simply the claim that a savior would come in their time. Islam was the third attempt to get the word of the "God of Abraham" correct. 

I really think it is a mistake to underestimate the influence all three religions have on politics and conflict in that region. Liberal theists and even liberal atheists should not try to ignore or downplay the influence religion has on the world.

And the truth is in any case, both trying to claim that land is stupid to me considering prior polytheism gave birth to all three religions. If enough Jews and Muslims in Mesopotamia got DNA tests, they'd find out they are far more related than they would want to admit. That is why I really would call a religion the only thing it is, a religion. Religions are not a race, not an ethnicity, or a national geography. One cannot escape their facial features or skin tone, we have no choice in that. But one can grow up to accept or reject the claims parents or a society may sell them.

The religious institutions and those who employ them -like political regimes- make a big fuss and blow a huge smoke cloud for you to believe instead of seeing the real events.

Religious institutions are mostly led by personal interest. Form a siege on the followers of a religion and you'll be surprised -if not shocked- by the speed its followers would abandon it; take Saudi Arabia for example after MBS, or take medieval Europe as another example .

Israel stood because European Jews -especially British- wanted haven someplace away from Europe; they immigrated because they were broke -or saw poverty in the future- not because they had ultimate faith. Religion was only a decoration, and in other occasions a "single reason among many".

I doubt that the new generation of Israelies love or practice Judaism as the old generation used to.
Religion is in many situations a mere "chant" or a way to immobilize masses

(June 27, 2019 at 8:56 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(June 27, 2019 at 6:35 am)Brian37 Wrote: Nope sorry, it is about religion for both sides. Both have backers that do claim their God gave them that land, it doesn't have to be every single one claiming that, but just enough to gain the support of people with money. Even our right wing Christians here in the states have religious reasons for politically backing Israel. In the book of revelations according to many evangelicals Jews will get a nation and that will signal the "end times". 

All three religions stem from prior Canaanite polytheism. Yahweh prior to being elevated to the one true God was a lesser god in the divine family under the head God "El". Hebrews simply took the character and started a new monotheistic religion from it. Christianity was simply the claim that a savior would come in their time. Islam was the third attempt to get the word of the "God of Abraham" correct. 

I really think it is a mistake to underestimate the influence all three religions have on politics and conflict in that region. Liberal theists and even liberal atheists should not try to ignore or downplay the influence religion has on the world.

And the truth is in any case, both trying to claim that land is stupid to me considering prior polytheism gave birth to all three religions. If enough Jews and Muslims in Mesopotamia got DNA tests, they'd find out they are far more related than they would want to admit. That is why I really would call a religion the only thing it is, a religion. Religions are not a race, not an ethnicity, or a national geography. One cannot escape their facial features or skin tone, we have no choice in that. But one can grow up to accept or reject the claims parents or a society may sell them.

The religious institutions and those who employ them -like political regimes- make a big fuss and blow a huge smoke cloud for you to believe instead of seeing the real events.

Religious institutions are mostly led by personal interest. Form a siege on the followers of a religion and you'll be surprised -if not shocked- by the speed its followers would abandon it; take Saudi Arabia for example after MBS, or take medieval Europe as another example .

Israel stood because European Jews -especially British- wanted haven someplace away from Europe; they immigrated because they were broke -or saw poverty in the future- not because they had ultimate faith. Religion was only a decoration, and in other occasions a "single reason among many".

I doubt that the new generation of Israelies love or practice Judaism as the old generation used to.
Religion is in  many situations a mere "chant" or a way to immobilize masses

Israel is socially liberal, but economically conservative and Bibi is a conservative whom appeals to the old school. Just like in America, despite most Americans being center or left, we are under the control of a conservative minority.

Bibi wants a conservative religious state. He has insisted on a Talmud based constitution. He wont get one as far as I know, but he has advocated for it.

To me this is no different than when our GOP politicians insist that our public schools be used for Christian indoctrination centers.

I’m a big fan of the Ripley Solution for solving the issues of the Middle East.

There needs to be a North and South Palestine.