(July 29, 2019 at 5:18 pm)EgoDeath Wrote:

(July 29, 2019 at 2:30 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Louie C.K. broke my heart. I absolutely adored him.

Same. I think it's about time he came back into comedy. What he did is certainly not excusable, but I'd like to think he's paid his due.

edit: I understand he is doing local clubs and stuff but I'm interested in seeing another special from him; he's fucking hilarious.

You know, the sad thing is that as bad as what Louis did, I seriously think that the backlash against him that happened as a result of his being outed as a creep may have made things worse. I can't be sure whether or not Louis was actually remorseful when he wrote that apology. I'd like to think he was, if only because A) I liked his work and B) more importantly, I know first-hand what it's like to be treated like a dangerous psychopath. (Personal story in the hide to keep the flow of the post)



Regardless of whether or not Louis CK was actually sincere in his apology, it seems like either nobody believed he was or nobody gave a shit about whether or not he was. Hell, about a month after the news broke, he went into a restaurant and from the story I read about it, everyone spent the whole time he was there making fun of him. As far as I can tell, he did nothing out of the ordinary (for a human being) that night at Sevilla Restaurant.

And I can only assume that when confronted with all this backlash, and being told that many don't even care if he ever tries to change, I can only assume that he wound up thinking something like this (or at least the last verse):

Quote:All right, enough - so be it
So be it, then:
Let all Oz be agreed
I'm wicked through and through
Since I can not succeed
Fiyero, saving you
I promise no good deed
Will I attempt to do again
Ever again
No good deed
Will I do again!

And when he comes back, he ends up doing this:





And given that, in the past, his comedy, when it wasn't just vulgar, was actually fairly thoughtful (especially in his TV series like Louie and Horace and Pete) and, dare I say it, fairly "woke" (even if the revelations make one question whether it was just performative virtue-signalling). That horseshit, this is just jarring and the only way I can wrap my head around why he thought this was a good idea was if this was the culmination of Louis CK figuring out that, if it seems like everyone's going to see you as a massive dumpster fire, and nothing you can do will change that, what's the point in trying not to be?  


I never thought I'd quote Suicide Squad, but this is totally on point: 



Society, WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU THINK WAS GOING TO HAPPEN?

I also miss Louis C.K. 

One that I don't miss is Garrison Keillor but find it strange.  How the hell did that happen? That was just too fucking bizarre. I remember an interview on the Howard Stern show with Harvey Pekar. Pekar said that his kids called Keillor "The Breather". It's hard to imagine.

(July 29, 2019 at 7:05 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: If you miss serial sex offenders you need a better scope.

So, are we not allowed to consider the severity of their offenses? I can certainly recall times where I made a female uncomfortable by advances I made. I then chose to stop making said advances, but I can definitely remember "creeping out" a girl or two, especially in my high school days when I wasn't so attuned to socializing with women. I've since learned how to better gauge people's interest in me and have since avoided such uncomfortable scenarios, but should I be chastised and lambasted forever for making a girl or two uncomfortable? Or am I allowed to learn from that and continue on with my life?

Are we not allowed to consider whether or not they've paid their penance? At what point is a person allowed to continue to make a living and be at peace in the public eye after having such a scandal?

Before you can even try it, no, this is not victim-shaming. This is not down-playing what happened/happens to victims of sexual abuse. One can feel complete empathy for the victim(s) of such acts and still ask such questions. It's not downplaying any of that. It simply isn't. It's being allowed to ask, "How severe was this situation? Does this person deserve forgiveness, at some point? If so, when? And what does that forgiveness look like?"

Trying to paint this stuff in black and white does no favors for anyone, especially the victims themselves. Should we compare the victims of, let's say, Louis C.K. to that of Harvey Weinstein, we'll see that there are different dynamics at play. There are probably similar dynamics as well (abuse of power, or perceived power, over victims), but there are still different ones. It's a different circumstance and a different person committing a different act of sexual assault.

Are we allowed to ask questions about those differences?

It seems you'd say no.

I, for one, would love to see a new special from Louis, especially after all this time. And while I would like to believe that he at least tried to apologize or make things right (if that's possible) with his victims, I cannot know that for sure. And to be honest, it's none of my damn business. I just think he's a funny comedian.

That you try to paint people as "bad" or morally defunct for wanting to see certain people return is only a poor attempt at virtue-signaling and trying to prove to everyone how much better than them you are. And, to be honest, it's tiring.

Making an unwanted comment or flirting with someone who isn't interested is NOT the same as sexual assault. Can we at least agree on that? At what point does someone become a "victim?" I think it's a question worth asking. I've had plenty of woman make advances toward me that I felt were inappropriate and, quite honestly, they made me feel damn uncomfortable. I remember at a job I used to have I used to actively avoid this one lady because she constantly told me I was "handsome" and she wanted to "hook me up" with her daughter. She even tried to take pictures of me to send to her daughter and I literally had to physically turn away from her and block the camera with my hand.

Was I a victim of sexual assault? Or did some creepy older lady just make me feel uncomfortable? I'd say the latter. I choose not to call myself a victim because, to be honest, this specific situation wasn't that big of a deal. Just sort of odd. That being said, actual sexual assault IS a big deal. But even then, are we allowed to ask when someone has paid their penance? Can people like this ever be forgiven?

Personally, I couldn't care less if I never saw Kevin Spacey's face again. But Louis Ck? Sure, I'd like to see another special from him. He's a funny guy.

(July 29, 2019 at 7:05 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: If you miss serial sex offenders you need a better scope.

It’s more that I miss the entertainment. Knowing they’ve done that, I obviously don’t miss them. I wish they didn’t turn out to be cunts.

(July 29, 2019 at 8:49 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(July 29, 2019 at 7:05 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: If you miss serial sex offenders you need a better scope.

It’s more that I miss the entertainment. Knowing they’ve done that, I obviously don’t miss them. I wish they didn’t turn out to be cunts.

This, precisely.

I wish others understood what I was saying here.

I still enjoy the music of Michael Jackson, and some of the comedy of Bill Cosby, even though they turned out to be predators.

Stare long enough into the abyss yada yada yada.

"No one is perfect" some use that as a cover to be assholes. What else is new? Sometimes I just hate how people are, and I'm no fairy godmother either. I guess that's part of being a multifaceted human.

(July 29, 2019 at 8:59 pm)Sal Wrote: Stare long enough into the abyss yada yada yada.

"No one is perfect" some use that as a cover to be assholes. What else is new? Sometimes I just hate how people are, and I'm no fairy godmother either. I guess that's part of being a multifaceted human.

Yea, for sure. I don't think sexual assault is something we should try to explain away by "people are assholes." It's an inexcusable behavior. But some people do deserve forgiveness, don't they? People are flawed, but so long as those flaws affect other people negatively in ways that are incredibly damaging, we can't let it go. But that doesn't mean we have to punish people eternally, either. Even murderers can be forgiven, depending on the situation.

People are indeed flawed. There is a distinct difference though between bring awkwardly creepy and purposely assaulting someone.

(July 29, 2019 at 9:24 pm)no one Wrote: People are indeed flawed. There is a distinct difference though between bring awkwardly creepy and purposely assaulting someone.

I know that, you know that, but the sad thing is, if this Vox article is any indication, there are quite a few who just don't give a shit about it. I can't be sure if this is a minority view or if this is actually common enough that it should be the assumed default, but honestly, one thing's for sure: people are fucking flawed, whether they're rapists or people who go looking for rapists so they can lash out against them so people can think they're good people.

I've written before about something I call the Dexter Hypothesis, and every day, it just becomes more and more obviously true. The way I see it, at this point, you'd have better luck disproving global warming than to prove that it isn't part of human nature to look for excuses to be flawed people in ways that those flaws can potentially be celebrated.

Not being able to resist Oreos is a flaw.
Punching someone in the face because you want to isn't a flaw, it's criminally violent.

One thing that does suck is if a person is accused and later it turns out they are actually innocent, they get to wear that scarlet letter the rest of their lives.