(September 12, 2019 at 3:25 am)EgoDeath Wrote:

(September 11, 2019 at 6:12 pm)Macoleco Wrote: I think you are exaggerating the situation. Why are you so obsessed about correcting Belaqua about the Yakuza? That was never his point.

Because @Belaqua is often a smarmy douche who likes to argue with people for the sake of argument. And Boru will find any reason to disagree with someone, even semantics. Bel talks about the prevalence in Western society of the tough guy who responds to disagreement with the threat of physical violence.

What about responding to people who disagree with you with the comparison of them to the mentally ill? Where is that a common trend at? I wonder.

I disagree.

Boru

Yesterday I got together with a couple of Japanese friends of mine who are professional dancers. They asked for my help translating the material for their next trip abroad.

They are a kind of odd couple because when they're not performing he's a Goth and she loves flashy colors.

Somehow we got to talking about the different levels of transvestitism here in our middle-sized city. We all knew that one guy, who inherited a fortune from his businessman father, who wears only minidresses when he goes shopping, and somehow always manages to demonstrate that he's not wearing underwear. They hadn't seen the guy in the suburbs to the east of here who despite being quite elderly always wears young ladies' kimono with a long blond wig. People who only dress up for night life are popular, too.

I forgot to mention to them that Japan enforces crushing conformity on everyone.

I find it helpful to remember that Winnie-the-Pooh wore a crop top with no panties, ate whatever he wanted to, and seemed perfectly ok with himself.

There's a lesson, there.

Boru

Cthulhu ate whatever he wanted and thought he was a god. There's a lesson there.

(September 11, 2019 at 5:15 pm)Belaqua Wrote:

(September 11, 2019 at 8:58 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: If you wanted to stick to your original point, maybe you shouldn't have digressed about the 'honor' of the Yakuza. But I'll give you the free pass you want. Enjoy.

I never said the Yakuza had any honor, so what you say here is a lie.

I said they don't bother people who aren't in rival gangs. In fact that was too narrow, I should have said that if you're not connected with their industries (drugs, prostitution, etc.) then their tough-guy approach to life doesn't affect you. As was clear from context, I was talking about tough guy attitudes, and the fact that with the exception of the Yakuza they are relatively unimportant in Japan.

A liar, am I?

And I wonder how one might get involved in the industry of being trafficked?

(September 13, 2019 at 8:42 am)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(September 11, 2019 at 5:15 pm)Belaqua Wrote: I never said the Yakuza had any honor, so what you say here is a lie.

I said they don't bother people who aren't in rival gangs. In fact that was too narrow, I should have said that if you're not connected with their industries (drugs, prostitution, etc.) then their tough-guy approach to life doesn't affect you. As was clear from context, I was talking about tough guy attitudes, and the fact that with the exception of the Yakuza they are relatively unimportant in Japan.

A liar, am I?

And I wonder how one might get involved in the industry of being trafficked?

How dare you question Belaqua? He's an expert on every subject that's ever existed. Toe the line, pleb.

It's interesting to me to discuss how various societies treat people who are different -- who think or act differently.

By comparing Japan to other cultures I think we can say something about the thread topic, as well as Macoleco's personal interest in moving here.

There is a lot of prejudice in Japan. Bullying is a huge problem in schools. I'm sure there are still many gay people who are closeted, who would like to be free.

We could compare all of this with what we've experienced in our own cultures.

One of the horrifying things about bullying in Japan is what the bullies say. Every year some poor kid gets bullied and commits suicide, and when the news interviews his classmates there's one kid who says, hey, the world is tough, if you can't take it you should check out now.

This to me is horrible, barbaric. It's also common on forums like this one, in which the self-appointed conformity enforcers are willing to say about anything to those who diverge from the forum consensus.

Since I'm not in a high school or involved with the Yakuza's activities at all, I never experience tough guy enforcers. No doubt there are people who find me distasteful just because I'm foreign, but no one has ever threatened violence over it. Likewise the many memoirs of gay foreigners who settled in Japan after the war. Donald Keene, Edward Seidensticker, and other important figures in the literary scene, as well as businessmen like the uncle in the nonfiction book The Hare With Amber Eyes, found Tokyo safer and more accepting of gay men than the US was.

To be clear, these people often remained closeted in their offices or universities, but they never felt the threat of random violence from self-appointed conformity-enforcers when they were out on the town, in the gay districts or clubs or movie theaters.

In my own case, I have experienced more random insults from Americans in my Kansas hometown than from all of Japan.

Without claiming perfection for any group, the comparison of how different cultures do or do not reward sociopathy would be an interesting topic.