I'm glad we've established that the book isn't magic, Atlas.

Kindly point to the "very logical explanation for the existence of god" that you claim it contains.

“Well, you see, the book...”

(December 23, 2019 at 7:07 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(December 23, 2019 at 4:11 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: Proving that the content is untouched doesn’t also prove the content is true. Ffs.

The First Folio (1623) contains 'A Midsummer Night's Dream'.  It has survived several English land wars, the Great Fire of London, and the Blitz.  The play has not been altered in nearly 400 years.  Therefore it is true, and Oberon, Titania and Puck are real people.

Boru

I don't recall that Britain was invaded by the Mongols, or witnessed whole civilizations converting to "The First Folio".

The 17th century is also not the 7th century. I refuse the comparing of 17th century Britain's ability to preserve books to 7th century Islamic empire.

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(December 23, 2019 at 8:31 am)Deesse23 Wrote: .
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(Quoted below)

Quote:If Islam dictates that the Quran is the word of god, why would you need evidence?

To make sure I'm not being fooled.

Quote:If Allah gave us a book that is *obsolete* without collecting additional evidence, why is Islam then dictating that the Quran is the word of god?

Because God gave us eyes, mind, ears...etc. The additional collecting of evidence through your senses is a must. This is how humans read.

Quote: Should i become Muslim because i believe its dictate or because i have gathered evidence by looking at the universe?

You use both. You look at the universe, and read the Quran.

Quote:I don't recall that Britain was invaded by the Mongols, or witnessed whole civilizations converting to "The First Folio".

The 17th century is also not the 7th century. I refuse the comparing of 17th century Britain's ability to preserve books to 7th century Islamic empire.

Utterly immaterial to the main point, which is that preservation of a document doesn't make that document true.

But if length of time is that important to you, do you accept the Gilgamesh flood to be a true and accurate historical account?  Tablets XI and XII recount this myth, and we have the original clay tablets.  Because of this, the story can't possibly have been altered.

The tablets are older to Mohammed than Mohammed is to us.  Does that mean they're true?

Boru

(December 23, 2019 at 10:29 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

Quote:If Islam dictates that the Quran is the word of god, why would you need evidence?

To make sure I'm not being fooled.

Quote:If Allah gave us a book that is *obsolete* without collecting additional evidence, why is Islam then dictating that the Quran is the word of god?

Because God gave us eyes, mind, ears...etc. The additional collecting of evidence through your senses is a must. This is how humans read.

No it isnt a must. Quite the opposite. Islam dictates so!
#1 Islam dictates that the Quran is the unaltered work of god
#2 You want to collect additional evidence to make sure you arent fooled by Islam
Conclusion: You cannot be a Muslim, at least not a True Muslim


If Islam is true, then you should not collect evidence. If you collect evidence you cannot be a follower of Islam. If Allah tells you to collect evidence (by giving a book that is *obsolete* without evidence), then Islam is not accoring to the will of Allah.

You, can follow either Islams dictate or Allahs unaltered word. They are both excluding each other according to your description. Which one is it?

(December 23, 2019 at 10:29 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

Quote: Should i become Muslim because i believe its dictate or because i have gathered evidence by looking at the universe?

You use both. You look at the universe, and read the Quran.

But the Quran dictates it is the unaltered word of god. If Islam is true, i should not collect evidence. If Quran is god unaltered word, then Islam is not following Allahs unaltered word
On a sidenote: What is your method of collecting evidence?

Beowulf is the oldest extant work in the (proto)english language. It's contemporaneous to the quran. There isn't a single place in the english speaking world that hasn't been invaded, burnt down, rebuilt, and invaded and burnt down again since it was written.

Clearly, that means that grendel and his mother are super duper real, as are the dragons and sea serpents and the white hall.

The meso-american temple complex's myths are literally written into stone monoliths, also contemporaneous to the quran. The region has endured near total genocide and countless wars since. Their gods and stories must be equally true, to you.

Or not..because you don't actually believe anything on the basis of the silly things you post here. 50/50 - I'm leaving just as much room for you to be as ridiculous as you make yourself out to be.

I'd rather see that very logical explanation...than anything you've ever posted to the boards, Atlas. Anything. Not because I;d suddenly drop to me knees and proclaim some fairy my master...but because it would help to establish that so many of the world's people aren't absolute cretins. That they have some actual reason to believe what they do..even if it's false, and even if it wouldn't matter if it were true.

A question: allah surely could leave an indestructable book for all that could read, i understand its a shy god. They all are. But why hasn't he done so?

Allah isn't bilingual.

Being bi is an affront to all that is holy.

(December 23, 2019 at 10:29 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: You use both. You look at the universe, and read the Quran.

Been there, done that. The book has bugger all to do with the universe. Nothing in it about GRBs or the expansion of space-time. Try some Asimov instead.