Some can not interpret at all.

(January 26, 2020 at 9:53 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(January 26, 2020 at 9:31 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: And the best way to understand the plot is to read the book.  It's a pretty straightforward read.  After you read it, come back and tell us what you think it's about, and I'll be happy to correct you, just like I did with 'Macbeth'.

Boru

You sound like my mother when she said "look the word up in the dictionary". THAT IS FUCKING BULLSHIT.

Just like a magician, "If you don't know, you are a moron for asking"

I fucking hate that bullshit. 

It takes NOTHING away from knowing, or appreciation of what someone has to convey, for them to tell you without making you chase it. 

I have never fucking liked assholes who pull that shit with me. Tell me what you mean first, don't fucking make me guess. I can still appreciate what you are trying to convey if you tell me up front. It is the same thing to me in any type of education. I am not a lab rat on a wheel out to chase cheese for the amusement of ringmaster.

It isn't that what you might have is not valuable, but in that you don't need to shroud your point like it is a Rubix Cube to stroke your own ego.

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The best teachers don't throw people in the deep end, but as teachers learn to relate what they know to others. THAT is why I am asking about the plot of Wuthering Heights. Not because I can't read but I want to know what I am getting into, just like an airline mechanic doesn't know every plane engine, but if to work on one, has to have training BEFORE. It DOES NOT destroy the mystery for me, for others to explain the plot before I read something. It actually HELPS ME appreciate it more.

Wasn't your mother a teacher?  Telling kids to look words up is a way for parents and teachers to teach a child to figure things out.  It's not a 'you're a moron' statement.  It's a teaching moment - as in  - try to figure it out.  If you still have questions, then ask.  

Real teachers teach others how to learn and to use the tools available to them.

(January 26, 2020 at 2:20 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(January 26, 2020 at 9:53 am)Brian37 Wrote: You sound like my mother when she said "look the word up in the dictionary". THAT IS FUCKING BULLSHIT.

Just like a magician, "If you don't know, you are a moron for asking"

I fucking hate that bullshit. 

It takes NOTHING away from knowing, or appreciation of what someone has to convey, for them to tell you without making you chase it. 

I have never fucking liked assholes who pull that shit with me. Tell me what you mean first, don't fucking make me guess. I can still appreciate what you are trying to convey if you tell me up front. It is the same thing to me in any type of education. I am not a lab rat on a wheel out to chase cheese for the amusement of ringmaster.

It isn't that what you might have is not valuable, but in that you don't need to shroud your point like it is a Rubix Cube to stroke your own ego.

---

The best teachers don't throw people in the deep end, but as teachers learn to relate what they know to others. THAT is why I am asking about the plot of Wuthering Heights. Not because I can't read but I want to know what I am getting into, just like an airline mechanic doesn't know every plane engine, but if to work on one, has to have training BEFORE. It DOES NOT destroy the mystery for me, for others to explain the plot before I read something. It actually HELPS ME appreciate it more.

Wasn't your mother a teacher?  Telling kids to look words up is a way for parents and teachers to teach a child to figure things out.  It's not a 'you're a moron' statement.  It's a teaching moment - as in  - try to figure it out.  If you still have questions, then ask.  

Real teachers teach others how to learn and to use the tools available to them.

Exactly. My own mum was a nurse, not a teacher. But whenever I’d ask her something like, ‘What does this word mean?’, I’d get an answer along the lines of, ‘What do you THINK it means?’ or ‘What do the words around it mean?’ I would always be led to the answer, not given the answer.

Boru

Attributing Wuthering Heights to Pat Benatar is very offensive

(January 26, 2020 at 1:14 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: And, as has been emphasised, the only real way to know the plot of the book is to read it yourself.

To be fair, it's not like he's got access to a vast source of information where he can find loads of in-depth summaries of this very well-known 19th century novel, and, due to said novel's advanced age, it is in the public domain worldwide, and he could potentially find the text for free.

Quote:Others can tell you the basic plot, but all humans interpret things differently.

Yeah, like how Kate Bush saw it as a romantic story and I see it as the story of a 19th Century equivalent of Lou Bloom from Nightcrawler who contents himself with just toying with a family for two generations and not making his bones in the news industry in the worst way possible.

(January 26, 2020 at 2:20 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(January 26, 2020 at 9:53 am)Brian37 Wrote: You sound like my mother when she said "look the word up in the dictionary". THAT IS FUCKING BULLSHIT.

Just like a magician, "If you don't know, you are a moron for asking"

I fucking hate that bullshit. 

It takes NOTHING away from knowing, or appreciation of what someone has to convey, for them to tell you without making you chase it. 

I have never fucking liked assholes who pull that shit with me. Tell me what you mean first, don't fucking make me guess. I can still appreciate what you are trying to convey if you tell me up front. It is the same thing to me in any type of education. I am not a lab rat on a wheel out to chase cheese for the amusement of ringmaster.

It isn't that what you might have is not valuable, but in that you don't need to shroud your point like it is a Rubix Cube to stroke your own ego.

---

The best teachers don't throw people in the deep end, but as teachers learn to relate what they know to others. THAT is why I am asking about the plot of Wuthering Heights. Not because I can't read but I want to know what I am getting into, just like an airline mechanic doesn't know every plane engine, but if to work on one, has to have training BEFORE. It DOES NOT destroy the mystery for me, for others to explain the plot before I read something. It actually HELPS ME appreciate it more.

Wasn't your mother a teacher?  Telling kids to look words up is a way for parents and teachers to teach a child to figure things out.  It's not a 'you're a moron' statement.  It's a teaching moment - as in  - try to figure it out.  If you still have questions, then ask.  

Real teachers teach others how to learn and to use the tools available to them.

Sorry I hate that shit.

My parents were both "sink or swim" old school authoritarians.

Learning isn't about might makes right, nor is it about sink or swim. "Look it up" no. It is not asking for a handout to say, "I need help". Sometimes one can. But when you get stuck, you don't need anyone treating you like you are a failure or stupid.

Some of the things I know know, many of the things I know now, I didn't feel like I had to walk over hot coals or broken glass to understand. Many of the things I know and understand now are because the person explaining them to me was NOT an "look it up" "sink or swim" authoritarian."

I hate the false dichotomy that asking for help in learning is a handout. Kids learn differently. You cant use the bullshit sink or swim method.

The best teachers I ever had were not the "LOOK IT UP" absolutists, but the ones who slowed down, and tried to get into my mind and relate to me.

My mom, as much as I love her, was one of those sink or swim teachers. I love her for a multitude of reasons, but not that. It always frustrated me with her how she would make everything simplistic and black and white and "I can so why cant you". I have to give her credit in her old age, she did finally accept me for me instead of trying to mold me.

I can say that I do not learn by sink or swim. I do not learn through authoritarians. The best conditions for me have always been friendly exchange, back and forth, with the ability to stop the teacher when I don't understand them, and when they respond with trying to find out what I identify with and relating that to me.

Point is, teaching by sledgehammer is not teaching, it is like training a dog. The dog can respond, but getting the answer correct only means they are trained.

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The person who taught me to value science the most was my late best friend Bob Spence. I still cannot do a fraction to save my life. But what Bob did do, was allow me to be myself, allow me to challenge him when I wasn't understanding something. He didn't turn me in to Hawking or Dawkins, no. But he did make it easier for me to understand overall concepts, even if I could not do the math.

He is why I don't feel dumb not being able to smelt metal to build a block car engine from scratch, but understand the overall concept of a combustion engine. He is why, while I cannot recite all the classes of Darwin, I do know what Adenine, Thymine, Guanine and Cytosine are.

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The goal of a teacher should not be getting you to repeat like a parrot, but to get you to understand. If threatening a student with punishment is what anyone thinks work, then they should sign up with the despots of history, and not the scientists/artists who gave us the modern west.

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(January 26, 2020 at 3:00 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

Over the past few days after starting the this thread, and please correct me if I am wrong. The plot is basically two star crossed lovers Heathcliff and Catherine who want to be together but cannot because of situation.

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This is soap opera stuff here.. ...... I am still not getting the entire plot. All I am getting is that Heathcliff and Catherine should have hooked up, if the writers are not dicks, but why start with a good ending when you can fuck things up for ratings. So just like any WWE or Jerry Springer Episode, Heathcliff and Catherine end up marrying other people. while still having feelings for each other.

I think I am getting that right. Please correct me if I am wrong. But what I am not getting is how it all ends. And what is the difference between Catherine and Cathy? I am still not getting that part.

I do understand the plot better, but not as completely as I would like. If I am understanding the plot it is basically two people who love each other but get seperated by family dynamics who want to be together but end up marrying other people. What I am not getting is the ending.

(January 28, 2020 at 10:39 am)Brian37 Wrote: I do understand the plot better, but not as completely as I would like. If I am understanding the plot it is basically two people who love each other but get seperated by family dynamics who want to be together but end up marrying other people. What I am not getting is the ending.

This is what comes of eating well-done steak with ranch dressing.

Boru

(January 26, 2020 at 1:14 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Yup.

Original was by Kate Bush.  As much as I love the music of Pat Benatar, Wurhering Heights is one of the few songs from her that I have never listened to.

And, as has been emphasised, the only real way to know the plot of the book is to read it yourself.  Others can tell you the basic plot, but all humans interpret things differently.

All I can speak to to that particular song, is that it sounded "egg heady" to me at the time. And at my teen years, I was intimidated by the complexity of the lyrics. Back then, regardless of mantra or motif, when anyone put forth work, music, or anything, including academics, i was always intimidated. I  loved "Wuthering Heights", not because I understood it, I still don't to some degree to this day. I loved the mystery of it. It still had/has a Romeo/Juliet quality about it.

But no, sporry. I have found that I get the point of a plot better when someone doesn't throw me in the deep end. I have always hated that.

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(January 28, 2020 at 12:00 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(January 28, 2020 at 10:39 am)Brian37 Wrote: I do understand the plot better, but not as completely as I would like. If I am understanding the plot it is basically two people who love each other but get seperated by family dynamics who want to be together but end up marrying other people. What I am not getting is the ending.

This is what comes of eating well-done steak with ranch dressing.

Boru

RatonalPoet... Having watched my best friend Hillbilly Atheist put a giant forklift pad of butter on his ribeye, I don't want to hear shit about my dreaching my ribeye in ranch dressing.