(May 15, 2020 at 7:05 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Pearl was straight up brilliant.  Fun fact, one of (if not the) chief architects of the attack was one of the most vocal critics of war with the us.  In the end, seeing that conflict was inevitable, he resigned himself to the necessity of giving his country the best position it could open with.

which arguably diminished japan’s chances of avoiding defeat.   

if japan had not attacked pearl harbor, but attacked Philippines and Guam instead, the pacific fleet would have followed long established US strategic playbook, and sailed through thousands of miles of pacific ocean surrounded by japanese treaty mandates islands to relieve philippines.   

The Japanese and the US navies had both been preparing for this scenario for 20 years, and the japanese were way ahead in tactics, doctrine and equipment for winning this sort of battle.   it was very likely such a move would have ended in disaster for the US Pacific fleet.   the actual odds in this sort of battle facing pacific fleet in dec 1941 would have been even steeper than usual because much of the fleet train and destroyer screen had been stripped to enforce the atlantic.   this would have made the pacific fleet even more susceptible to japanese weapons, tactics and doctrine.

If the war started ordinarily instead of a surprise attack.  if the US fleet sailed to near japan and was annihilated in a seemingly even battle, it would deprive the US of much of the moral indignation that stiffened its pursuit of the war.

Actually War Plan Orange was overridden by Rainbow-5, which called for a holding action in the Pacific.

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/pha/misc/rainbow5.html

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I'm sorry, I'm not being fair. I used to teach this shit at the college level. Literally.

@..... Atlass

War is always hell, and there are innocent civilians on all sides that get caught up in it, especially at the scale of WW2 My X wife is Japanese but I don't blame her for the attack on Pearl Harbor, just like I don't blame billions of Muslims for what Bin Laden did. I only blame him and the 19 assholes who helped him. I wouldn't blame Malala for what he did, nor our Muslim CONGRESSMAN Keith Ellison, or House of Representative Ilhan Omar. 

There are plenty of right wing Christian leaders I don't like. I also don't like Bibi either. But I damn sure am not going to assume that everyone that lives under a government I don't like are all evil. I don't think 100% of China's population are evil, or 100% of Russia's population is evil even if I don't like their governments. And I have run into plenty of individuals from Saudi arabia and Iran and Pakistan online, whom, like me wish humans wouldn't fight each other. 

And as far as America I damned sure hate our current president. But that does not mean I hate all of my fellow Americans.

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One of my online friends from Pakistan online, if he read/heard you calling me a terrorist, or lumping me in as a terrorist he'd give you an earful. Conversely, if some white asshole bigot here called him a terrorist, I would defend him. Just like although my marriage didn't work out with my x, I'll still defend her family regardless of WW2.

(May 15, 2020 at 9:00 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(May 15, 2020 at 8:47 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: True enough, but I think you lot could take Canada.

Boru

Canada would just polite us to death.

I was more thinking the cold and the sheer vastness and the resources you would need to keep an occupation going and please don't mistake politeness for weakness .

(May 15, 2020 at 9:29 pm)SUNGULA Wrote:

(May 15, 2020 at 9:00 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Canada would just polite us to death.

I was more thinking the cold and the sheer vastness and the resources you would need to keep an occupation going and please don't mistake politeness for weakness .

I have agents planted somewhere close to Yellow Knife, we're good.

(May 15, 2020 at 9:29 pm)SUNGULA Wrote:

(May 15, 2020 at 9:00 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Canada would just polite us to death.

I was more thinking the cold and the sheer vastness and the resources you would need to keep an occupation going and please don't mistake politeness for weakness .

I was joking...shouldn't have to explain that but there ya go.

(May 15, 2020 at 9:37 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(May 15, 2020 at 9:29 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: I was more thinking the cold and the sheer vastness and the resources you would need to keep an occupation going and please don't mistake politeness for weakness .

I was joking...shouldn't have to explain that but there ya go.

I know i was just saying

(May 15, 2020 at 9:00 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(May 15, 2020 at 8:47 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: True enough, but I think you lot could take Canada.

Boru

Canada would just polite us to death.

But they have a lot to answer for. What aboot that Brian Adams?

(May 15, 2020 at 8:24 pm)CarveTheFive Wrote: Honestly

America had no business having a navy base in the pacific. Or even having a presence in Hawaii. It’s my real opinion that every American that died and suffered fighting the Japanese deserved what they got because we were the aggressors. The naval presence in the pacific was an act of aggression.

I don't need exact details. Do you live in the US? Yes/No is sufficient.

I think our entire species has to come to grips that the days of conquest are over. I don't mean the battle over ideas. I just mean that our population is too big now, and we should educate more humans that we don't live on a flat surface and we all live on a ball, with finite resorces.