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RE: Why 'Science' tries to separate the beginning from Evolution!
May 24, 2020 at 1:53 am
(This post was last modified: May 24, 2020 at 1:55 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(May 24, 2020 at 1:36 am)JohnMBauer Wrote: (May 24, 2020 at 1:08 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Sun shines down and plants grow. There's our baseline. Above aside and in concert with that..is whatever gods explicitly do.
So, if I understand you correctly, what you're asking me is whether I acknowledge that the natural world operates independent of God. In response I would say that this proposition (1) is not a scientific one, and Is that a problem? Do you only notice Scientific Propositions™?
Quote:is in dire need of evidence or valid justification.
Is it, though? Rain falls, plants grow.....
Quote:Does the natural world indeed operate independent of God? I can't acknowledge that it does if I haven't been given any good reason to do so.
Try coming up with a good reason that god's included in all of the natural dross. What hole does god™ fill in plants growing, exactly?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Why 'Science' tries to separate the beginning from Evolution!
May 24, 2020 at 1:53 am
Quote:So, if I understand you correctly, what you're asking me is whether I acknowledge that the natural world operates independent of God.
Or at least appears to by any mean we can detect
Quote:In response I would say that this proposition (1) is not a scientific one
The above isn't scientific then please show god interacting in some detectable manor to refute methodological naturalism
Quote:, and (2) is in dire need of evidence or valid justification.
The above isn't valid then please show god interacting in some detectable manor to refute methodological naturalism
Quote: Does the natural world indeed operate independent of God? I can't acknowledge that it does if I haven't been given any good reason to do so.
Have you been good reason to assume it acts dependent on god ? Because nature does not seem to indicate such a dependence .
"Change was inevitable"
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RE: Why 'Science' tries to separate the beginning from Evolution!
May 24, 2020 at 1:55 am
(This post was last modified: May 24, 2020 at 1:55 am by Fake Messiah.)
(May 24, 2020 at 1:36 am)JohnMBauer Wrote: Does the natural world indeed operate independent of God? I can't acknowledge that it does if I haven't been given any good reason to do so.
But let's say this is the good reason that world operates independent of God
![[Image: indifferent.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/W415Rbx7/indifferent.jpg)
What would you say? Maybe that God is just an observer of nature and that he doesn't participate in it?
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: Why 'Science' tries to separate the beginning from Evolution!
May 24, 2020 at 2:06 am
(May 24, 2020 at 1:53 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Is that a problem? Do you only notice Scientific Propositions™?
Nope.
(May 24, 2020 at 1:53 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Is it, though? Rain falls, plants grow.....
But independent of God?
(May 24, 2020 at 1:53 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Try coming up with a good reason that god's included in all of the natural dross.
I thought I was being asked about acknowledging the proposition you had stated.
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RE: Why 'Science' tries to separate the beginning from Evolution!
May 24, 2020 at 2:07 am
Quote:But independent of God?
Do we have any reason or means of coming o he conclusion it's dependent on god ?
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
“No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
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RE: Why 'Science' tries to separate the beginning from Evolution!
May 24, 2020 at 2:15 am
(May 24, 2020 at 1:53 am)SUNGULA Wrote: ... please show god interacting in some detectable manor to refute methodological naturalism ...
I agree with methodological naturalism, doing science in a way that explores nature without reference to God.
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RE: Why 'Science' tries to separate the beginning from Evolution!
May 24, 2020 at 2:24 am
(May 24, 2020 at 2:15 am)JohnMBauer Wrote: (May 24, 2020 at 1:53 am)SUNGULA Wrote: ... please show god interacting in some detectable manor to refute methodological naturalism ...
I agree with methodological naturalism, doing science in a way that explores nature without reference to God. Good . Now the next question becomes why add god at all? What does it add ?
"Change was inevitable"
Nemo sicut deus debet esse!
“No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM
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RE: Why 'Science' tries to separate the beginning from Evolution!
May 24, 2020 at 2:32 am
(May 24, 2020 at 2:06 am)JohnMBauer Wrote: Nope. Good, won't be a problem between us.
Quote:But independent of God?
Yeah, independent of god. Whole bunch of shit happens in the world that doesn't require a god, regardless of whether there are gods.
I'm sure we can agree.
Quote:I thought I was being asked about acknowledging the proposition you had stated.
Sure.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Why 'Science' tries to separate the beginning from Evolution!
May 24, 2020 at 2:32 am
(This post was last modified: May 24, 2020 at 2:34 am by JohnMBauer.)
(May 24, 2020 at 2:24 am)SUNGULA Wrote: Good . Now the next question becomes why add god at all? What does it add ?
I'm a Christian theist. That's a theological world-view.
But I'm open to following where the evidence leads. I'll acknowledge that nature operates independent of God if there is evidence that it does.
(May 24, 2020 at 2:32 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Yeah, independent of god. Whole bunch of shit happens in the world that doesn't require a god, regardless of whether there are gods.
That's the claim, yes. But I can't accept it on your say-so.
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RE: Why 'Science' tries to separate the beginning from Evolution!
May 24, 2020 at 2:38 am
(This post was last modified: May 24, 2020 at 2:39 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Maybe not, but I'm sure that we can accept it on your say so, which you'll give with no qualms.
Grass grows in my yard. Did god have to specifically do that, or does grass just grow?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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