I will not entertain any debate of whether or not reparations for slavery should be paid - but simply want to figure out the logistics.

Who gets how much - and who pays it?

Would this have been done 140 years ago - it would be very simple  (and just) - if you were a slave you get paid X dollars for however many years you were a slave.

No problem.

However - now - there isn't anyone who was a slave during that period. (of course there's slaves now -but nobody seems to give much of a shit about that)

So who gets paid now - and how much?

You can't simply say - "my ancestor was a slave". That isn't a data point. "My great great great grandfather (provide name) was a slave (provide years) - and we have one data point. Unfortunately - the slave owners took advantage of the female slaves and a fair number of them sired offspring. So if your great great great grandfather was a slave -- and another great great great grandfather was a slave owner - doesn't the one cancel the other out??? After all - we shouldn't be paying the owners of slaves a damned cent.

And - what if you have 1 great great great grandfather who was a slave - and a great great great grandfather who was a freeman --- they did exist. Do you get a half share?

Then there's the problem of who foots the bill.

Again -- 140 years ago - it would be easy. The slave owners are the guilty bunch. They should have paid. It doesn't seem right to make abolitionists who risked everything to help free the enslaved.

It just seems it will be a hugely complicated task to figure out who is owed what - and distribute it equitably. What will be considered legal evidence of heredity and who decides what is a fair share?

The only simple way - is to show up -have somebody take a look at you and say "Yup. You look like a black guy - here's your money."

And who pays?

White people only? Are native Americans exempt? How about Asians? Latinos?

What about white people who's ancestors immigrated after slavery was made illegal? They didn't have anything to do with it. Why should they pay?

Because they're white????

Isn't that kinda racist?

LOL, white people™ pay? Jesus, way to telegraph your "economic anxiety". The government would pay any hypothetical reparations. Not your imaginary race.

(June 24, 2020 at 11:23 am)onlinebiker Wrote: I will not entertain any debate of whether or not reparations for slavery should be paid - but simply want to figure out the logistics.

Who gets how much - and who pays it?

Would this have been done 140 years ago - it would be very simple  (and just) - if you were a slave you get paid X dollars for however many years you were a slave.

No problem.

However - now - there isn't anyone who was a slave during that period. (of course there's slaves now -but nobody seems to give much of a shit about that)

So who gets paid now - and how much?

You can't simply say - "my ancestor was a slave". That isn't a data point. "My great great great grandfather (provide name) was a slave (provide years) - and we have one data point. Unfortunately - the slave owners took advantage of the female slaves and a fair number of them sired offspring. So if your great great great grandfather was a slave -- and another great great great grandfather was a slave owner - doesn't the one cancel the other out??? After all - we shouldn't be paying the owners of slaves a damned cent.

And - what if you have 1 great great great grandfather who was a slave - and a great great great grandfather who was a freeman --- they did exist. Do you get a half share?

Then there's the problem of who foots the bill.

Again -- 140 years ago - it would be easy. The slave owners are the guilty bunch. They should have paid. It doesn't seem right to make abolitionists who risked everything to help free the enslaved.

It just seems it will be a hugely complicated task to figure out who is owed what - and distribute it equitably. What will be considered legal evidence of heredity and who decides what is a fair share?

The only simple way - is to show up -have somebody take a look at you and say "Yup. You look like a black guy - here's your money."

And who pays?

White people only? Are native Americans exempt? How about Asians? Latinos?

What about white people who's ancestors immigrated after slavery was made illegal? They didn't have anything to do with it. Why should they pay?

Because they're white????

Isn't that kinda racist?

Not as racist as that post. 

Boru

I guess he got tired of pretending. Anyway, as Saint Ronald has said -

Quote:The taxpayer - that's someone who works for the federal government but doesn't have to take the civil service examination.

Perhaps he should direct his white greivance at racists past and present for getting us into this pickle.

There are other ways, ofc. We could..for example, force police departments to make direct payouts to impacted communities when they engage in their smash and grab seizures. Rather than using that money for military gear, surveillance equipment, and dept vacays for good quota filling officers? Or we could agressively litigate and assess punitive damages against corporations engaged in wage theft..and, again, give that money to the people they stole from. Or...we could provide free point-of-use access to things like a college education and guaranteed loans to first time homebuyers - particularly those with families. Or, we could just let all of the people we've imprisoned for profit for those offenses meant to specifically target black communities out of prison. Or we could do all of that, and more, and fuck it... let's let other people in on while we're at it. If none of that satisfies..there are a whole lot of empty acres out there, but..admittedly, not many mules.

Too racist for a racist? Does a racist think that our government is broke and couldn't possibly find some change under the couch? Are there absolutely no programs that a racist thinks our govt might be able to poach funds from?

Not to mention that reparations - if any - would, as you said, be paid by your government. It’s an ‘everybody knows’ thing that taxpayers don’t get to direct where that revenue goes, nor is the revenue apportioned based on the ethnicity of the people who paid in. 

Boru

(June 24, 2020 at 11:36 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(June 24, 2020 at 11:23 am)onlinebiker Wrote: I will not entertain any debate of whether or not reparations for slavery should be paid - but simply want to figure out the logistics.

Who gets how much - and who payis it?

Would this have been done 140 years ago - it would be very simple  (and just) - if you were a slave you get paid X dollars for however many years you were a slave.

No problem.

However - now - there isn't anyone who was a slave during that period. (of course there's slaves now -but nobody seems to give much of a shit about that)

So who gets paid now - and how much?

You can't simply say - "my ancestor was a slave". That isn't a data point. "My great great great grandfather (provide name) was a slave (provide years) - and we have one data point. Unfortunately - the slave owners took advantage of the female slaves and a fair number of them sired offspring. So if your great great great grandfather was a slave -- and another great great great grandfather was a slave owner - doesn't the one cancel the other out??? After all - we shouldn't be paying the owners of slaves a damned cent.

And - what if you have 1 great great great grandfather who was a slave - and a great great great grandfather who was a freeman --- they did exist. Do you get a half share?

Then there's the problem of who foots the bill.

Again -- 140 years ago - it would be easy. The slave owners are the guilty bunch. They should have paid. It doesn't seem right to make abolitionists who risked everything to help free the enslaved.

It just seems it will be a hugely complicated task to figure out who is owed what - and distribute it equitably. What will be considered legal evidence of heredity and who decides what is a fair share?

The only simple way - is to show up -have somebody take a look at you and say "Yup. You look like a black guy - here's your money."

And who pays?

White people only? Are native Americans exempt? How about Asians? Latinos?

What about white people who's ancestors immigrated after slavery was made illegal? They didn't have anything to do with it. Why should they pay?

Because they're white????

Isn't that kinda racist?

Not as racist as that post. 

Boru

Uh huh....

Detail how it is racist.

I've got five on OLB thinking that taxpayer funded initiatives are theft from whites™ to benefit The Blacks.

I've got ten on OLB failing to realize that even by his own tortured racist illogic, allowing The Blacks to lift themselves up would benefit their poor downtrodden white™ neighbors, who are constantly victimized by Gangbangers.

(June 24, 2020 at 12:30 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:

(June 24, 2020 at 11:36 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Not as racist as that post. 

Boru

Uh huh....

Detail how it is racist.

It’s racist because you seem to think that reparations might be paid out according to whose ancestors owned and traded slaves, ie, ‘white people’. That’s not remotely how something like this would work.  The US government allowed, supported and and gave legal protections to slavery and apartheid. The government will pay, not individuals. 

Boru

Sigh let's go over this 

Quote:I will not entertain any debate of whether or not reparations for slavery should be paid - but simply want to figure out the logistics.

Okay 

Quote:Who gets how much - and who pays it?

It doesn't have to be monetary as many reprocanist want government investment in fixing the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow that has left Blacks behind and continues to harm their future  

Quote:Would this have been done 140 years ago - it would be very simple  (and just) - if you were a slave you get paid X dollars for however many years you were a slave.

It doesn't have to be monetary 

Quote:No problem.

Okay

Quote:However - now - there isn't anyone who was a slave during that period. (of course there's slaves now -but nobody seems to give much of a shit about that)

It's not about if anyone is currently a slave it's about how slavery and subsequent issues of racism have left black behind 

Quote:So who gets paid now - and how much?

It doesn't have to be monetary 

Quote:You can't simply say - "my ancestor was a slave". 

And then my ancestors faced generations as second class citizens and then there children faced the effects of both  

Quote:That isn't a data point. "My great great great grandfather (provide name) was a slave (provide years) - and we have one data point. Unfortunately - the slave owners took advantage of the female slaves and a fair number of them sired offspring. So if your great great great grandfather was a slave -- and another great great great grandfather was a slave owner - doesn't the one cancel the other out??? After all - we shouldn't be paying the owners of slaves a damned cent.

No it doesn't as most of the time the children of slave masters were not free men nor even if they were raping your grandmother is hardly compensation . 

Quote:And - what if you have 1 great great great grandfather who was a slave - and a great great great grandfather who was a freeman --- they did exist. Do you get a half share?

Jim crow affect free blacks 

Quote:Then there's the problem of who foots the bill.

The government that was ultimately responsible for allowing slavery to be legal and wrote and maintained racist laws 

Quote:Again -- 140 years ago - it would be easy. The slave owners are the guilty bunch. They should have paid. It doesn't seem right to make abolitionists who risked everything to help free the enslaved.

Again the government 

Quote:It just seems it will be a hugely complicated task to figure out who is owed what - and distribute it equitably. What will be considered legal evidence of heredity and who decides what is a fair share?

It doesn't have to be monetary 

Quote:The only simple way - is to show up -have somebody take a look at you and say "Yup. You look like a black guy - here's your money."

It doesn't have to be monetary and non monetary proposals would focus on fixing the disadvantages blacks still face due to history 

Quote:And who pays?

The government 

Quote:White people only? Are native Americans exempt? How about Asians? Latinos?

The government 

Quote:What about white people who's ancestors immigrated after slavery was made illegal? They didn't have anything to do with it. Why should they pay?

The government 

Quote:Because they're white????

The government 

Quote:Isn't that kinda racist?

The government isn't a race

(June 24, 2020 at 12:30 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Not to mention that reparations - if any - would, as you said, be paid by your government. It’s an ‘everybody knows’ thing that taxpayers don’t get to direct where that revenue goes, nor is the revenue apportioned based on the ethnicity of the people who paid in. 

Boru

The government (any government) is'nt a source of income.

It takes and redistributes.

So ultimately some taxpayer is going to foot the bill.


And don't say "everyone pays". If you are getting more than you are giving - you're being paid.

All claims to the contrary are smoke and mirrors.

---

(June 24, 2020 at 12:35 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(June 24, 2020 at 12:30 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: Uh huh....

Detail how it is racist.

It’s racist because you seem to think that reparations might be paid out according to whose ancestors owned and traded slaves, ie, ‘white people’. That’s not remotely how something like this would work.  The US government allowed, supported and and gave legal protections to slavery and apartheid. The government will pay, not individuals. 

Boru

I'm not racist - you simply don't understand finances.