The one fallible aspect of creationist thought is that all must have a creator.

Therefore, something must have created god.

But then theists decide via apologetic argumentation that special pleading is in order, thus stating that god always existed.

(August 10, 2020 at 10:10 am)Eleven Wrote: The one fallible aspect of creationist thought is that all must have a creator.

Therefore, something must have created god.

But then theists decide via apologetic argumentation that special pleading is in order, thus stating that god always existed.

Yes, if a god made EVERYTHING then where was he before he made it??

They will just say that God is the answer to infinite regress caused by the idea that things need a creator. Yes, it is special pleading but also how creationism scratches the itch of, "Where did all this shit come from?" I'm an atheist and totally believe in evolution and abiogenesis but that is out of necessity. The adult in me holds the belief but the kid in me still wishes there was a thing that controls it all.

If only God exists, God IS the universe, everything that exists. Once you have a God, a universe is no longer a novel idea.

"God" is just a bad answer to hard questions.

"Ya'lls rules don't apply to God!"

(August 10, 2020 at 10:10 am)Eleven Wrote: The one fallible aspect of creationist thought is that all must have a creator.

Therefore, something must have created god.

But then theists decide via apologetic argumentation that special pleading is in order, thus stating that god always existed.

Asking "if everything has a creator, then what created God?" is a lot like asking "if people evolved from monkeys then why are there still monkeys?" The question shows that you don't understand the argument. 

Granted, the straw man version is a lot more convenient.

(August 10, 2020 at 10:10 am)Eleven Wrote: The one fallible aspect of creationist thought is that all must have a creator.

Therefore, something must have created god.

But then theists decide via apologetic argumentation that special pleading is in order, thus stating that god always existed.

This is an old and debunked argument. Unfortunately like "The Walking Dead", there are morons who cling to old mythology in reality. 

The problem with any omi-max god claim is that if something cannot come from nothing, then the claimed god had a source too. And that leads to the problem of infinite regress.

(August 10, 2020 at 4:10 pm)Belacqua Wrote:

(August 10, 2020 at 10:10 am)Eleven Wrote: The one fallible aspect of creationist thought is that all must have a creator.

Therefore, something must have created god.

But then theists decide via apologetic argumentation that special pleading is in order, thus stating that god always existed.

Asking "if everything has a creator, then what created God?" is a lot like asking "if people evolved from monkeys then why are there still monkeys?" The question shows that you don't understand the argument. 

Granted, the straw man version is a lot more convenient.

I agree it's a strawman, but it's also a case of special pleading

Atheists tend to frame the argument as, 'If everything that exists had a cause, then God must have a cause', which theists haven't argued since Aristotle made his case for an uncaused cause.

The proper argument is, 'Everything that began to exist must have a cause.  God is eternal and so does not require a cause, since God has always existed.'  This form of the argument is rife with its own problems, since 1) Theists don't adequately make the case for God having existed forever (other than definitionally and via a rather shaky appeal to infinite regress) and 2) This is nowhere near establishing a theistic god.

Boru

(August 10, 2020 at 4:16 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(August 10, 2020 at 10:10 am)Eleven Wrote: The one fallible aspect of creationist thought is that all must have a creator.

Therefore, something must have created god.

But then theists decide via apologetic argumentation that special pleading is in order, thus stating that god always existed.

This is an old and debunked argument. Unfortunately like "The Walking Dead", there are morons who cling to old mythology in reality. 

The problem with any omi-max god claim is that if something cannot come from nothing, then the claimed god had a source too. And that leads to the problem of infinite regress.

Dafuq is omi-max?