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RE: So, we'll never see our loved ones again?
August 13, 2020 at 7:41 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2020 at 7:46 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Individualism like that is a pretty strong indicator of the secularization of christian belief.
If a christian person laments never seeing their loved ones again as though this would be a shit world to live in if it were true....then they should consider that they would likely think as much in hell, but still...and especially then... should instead be happy for their loved ones, and that they did -not- see them again. We're all up in your religion, rearranging your head, devious secular types that we are.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: So, we'll never see our loved ones again?
August 13, 2020 at 9:51 pm
(August 13, 2020 at 7:41 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Individualism like that is a pretty strong indicator of the secularization of christian belief.
If a christian person laments never seeing their loved ones again as though this would be a shit world to live in if it were true....then they should consider that they would likely think as much in hell, but still...and especially then... should instead be happy for their loved ones, and that they did -not- see them again. We're all up in your religion, rearranging your head, devious secular types that we are.
I like Aquinas' view. 
My joy in heaven will be enhanced because I will be able to see my enemies suffer in hell.
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell 
Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist
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RE: So, we'll never see our loved ones again?
August 13, 2020 at 10:13 pm
Satisfaction is sweet.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: So, we'll never see our loved ones again?
August 27, 2020 at 4:24 am
(August 13, 2020 at 6:25 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: (August 2, 2020 at 4:28 pm)Shazzalovesnovels Wrote: How depressing.
You position assumes that what is important, is *individuals*.
We can (obviously) see, that evolution does not care about individuals, .. the larger universe does not "care" about anything.
Individualism (as a point-of-view) is prevalent in today's culture. That has not always been the case.
It's actually not "depressing", necessarily.
The lesson is, "show them you love them while you have the chance".
The implication that one can make up a comforting reality to live in, is, of course, false.
"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”
― Mark Twain But why should we assume that we were 'dead' before we were born? How can we be sure that the after life state is the same as the before life state? we could't have been dead, we just hadn't been born yet.
And what about nature? If a plant can die and live again, why can't we?
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RE: So, we'll never see our loved ones again?
August 27, 2020 at 4:39 am
Plants are not complex enough to have conscience, personality, character, individual identity; therefore, the comparison of us to plants simply does not work.
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RE: So, we'll never see our loved ones again?
August 27, 2020 at 5:48 am
(August 27, 2020 at 4:24 am)Shazzalovesnovels Wrote: (August 13, 2020 at 6:25 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: You position assumes that what is important, is *individuals*.
We can (obviously) see, that evolution does not care about individuals, .. the larger universe does not "care" about anything.
Individualism (as a point-of-view) is prevalent in today's culture. That has not always been the case.
It's actually not "depressing", necessarily.
The lesson is, "show them you love them while you have the chance".
The implication that one can make up a comforting reality to live in, is, of course, false.
"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”
― Mark Twain But why should we assume that we were 'dead' before we were born? How can we be sure that the after life state is the same as the before life state? we could't have been dead, we just hadn't been born yet.
And what about nature? If a plant can die and live again, why can't we? The implication in Mark Twain's quote, poetically alluded to, is that "you" didn't exist before you were born, which is the same non-existent state "you" will be after death.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman
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RE: So, we'll never see our loved ones again?
August 27, 2020 at 5:58 am
(August 27, 2020 at 4:24 am)Shazzalovesnovels Wrote: (August 13, 2020 at 6:25 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: You position assumes that what is important, is *individuals*.
We can (obviously) see, that evolution does not care about individuals, .. the larger universe does not "care" about anything.
Individualism (as a point-of-view) is prevalent in today's culture. That has not always been the case.
It's actually not "depressing", necessarily.
The lesson is, "show them you love them while you have the chance".
The implication that one can make up a comforting reality to live in, is, of course, false.
"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”
― Mark Twain But why should we assume that we were 'dead' before we were born? How can we be sure that the after life state is the same as the before life state? we could't have been dead, we just hadn't been born yet.
And what about nature? If a plant can die and live again, why can't we?
Never seen a dead plant come back to life, it may go into a dormant state but that's not the same as being dead
The meek shall inherit the Earth, the rest of us will fly to the stars.
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RE: So, we'll never see our loved ones again?
August 27, 2020 at 6:37 am
(August 27, 2020 at 4:24 am)Shazzalovesnovels Wrote: And what about nature? If a plant can die and live again, why can't we?
What do you mean by "die" here? As Eleven brought up, do plants have a sense of identity like we do?
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RE: So, we'll never see our loved ones again?
August 27, 2020 at 10:05 am
(August 27, 2020 at 4:24 am)Shazzalovesnovels Wrote: But why should we assume that we were 'dead' before we were born? How can we be sure that the after life state is the same as the before life state? we could't have been dead, we just hadn't been born yet.
And what about nature? If a plant can die and live again, why can't we?
We weren't alive before we were conceived, so it does seem a reasonable assumption. 'Dead' in the sense of 'no longer alive' is probably not the best word to describe that state, if we're being precise we should settle for nonliving or similar, if we're not being precise, 'dead' is fine. We can't be sure, but afterlives sure sound made-up and anything that seems to support them being real doesn't stand up to reasonable scrutiny. It's not certain that the after life state is the same as the before life state, but concluding that it is based on the evidence we have is reasonable.
A dead plant stays dead. A plant that's dormant (not completely dead) can revive. In any case it resembles an afterlife for an immaterial spirit in another plane of existence in no way whatsoever.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: So, we'll never see our loved ones again?
August 27, 2020 at 10:40 am
(This post was last modified: August 27, 2020 at 10:42 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(August 27, 2020 at 4:24 am)Shazzalovesnovels Wrote: And what about nature? If a plant can die and live again, why can't we?
They don't die and live again.
I also wonder what any natural whatsit has to do with your ghost flitting off to supernatural ports unknown. We know that the sort of afterlife™ biological things have also applies to human beings - that we fall apart and our constituent chemistry gets taken up by other living things, but that's not the sort of afterlife in mind when we consider heavens and hells.
The credibility of one lends nothing to the other - or so it would seem. I'd be interested in seeing the process that lead to this claim and this inference from that claim.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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