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Boru

Craig borders on trump's level of stupidity.

The teleological argument is intellectually vacuous rubbish which is obviated by the fact of evolution through natural selection, beginning in all likelihood with protobiotic molecules created in the warm, weird and wonderful proximity of hydrothermal vents circa 4,000,000,000 years ago. Game over WLC et al.

(October 3, 2020 at 10:58 am)JAG Wrote: we Christians hold that we can know Christianity to be true
based upon the inner witness of the Holy Spirit that lives in us and tells us that
Christianity is true.

But what is your stance towards people of other religions who claim to witnesses and feel gods of their religions that have nothing to do with Christianity?

Here's how George Harrison, the guitarist for the Beatles described his relationship with god Krishna:

"If there’s a God, I want to see Him. It’s pointless to believe in something without proof, and Krishna Consciousness and meditation are methods where you can actually obtain GOD perception. You can actually see God, and Hear Him, play with Him. It might sound crazy, but He is actually there, actually with you."

The difference between atheists and theists.


Theist: "God created the universe. Noone created God. God has always been."


Atheist: "Man created god. The universe has always been".

We can see the universe.

Your god? Strangely absent.

OP, you understand revelation doesn't mean anything epistemologically to us atheists here, no?

As far as I'm concerned, I have not been given any good reason to accept that you know with certainty that Christianity is true. Partly because saying that you bear the witness of the Holy Spirit within you means nothing to me. It's an empty claim to me.

As for this:

Quote:For example, the Teleological Argument for the existence of God seeks to establish probability based on the obvious order, design, and complexity that we see in the natural world, in the human body, in the Hubble Deep Field, and for that matter on the shelves of Walmart and Sam's Club --- all evidence of endless variety of products made from endless varieties of raw materials. Intelligent Design.

Two issues with this argument at first glance:

1) It is begging the question to presume actual design and then conclude from that the existence of God.

2) Order/complexity is not evidence that conclusively favors intelligent design over otherwise. Some things like the items on the shelves of Walmart and such are intelligently designed, while other things like planets and mountains and dinosaurs are/were probably not. Knowing which is this or that comes down to what we know about each of these things, not to some overgeneralized fallacious argument.

At work.

Well.... helloooo to the forums at large JAG.

Though I'll add that Mr Craig's works have been rather rehashed add nauseam here abouts.

That he doesn't understand enough biochemistry to fathom the errors in his "Odds are against" is also a 'Thing'.

All the best to you and yours.

(October 3, 2020 at 10:58 am)JAG Wrote:

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LOL, really? Does this guy think that "I can feel God therefore God exists" is such a good argument that he's been posting it "all over" Internet?! I guess this happens when people read some religious book (in this case by WLC) but fail to read some book with opposing arguments.

If you're a Christian, and you want to spread God on atheist websites, it would be very helpful, to say at least, to read the opposing opinion first to get to know what you are getting yourself into.

(October 4, 2020 at 6:53 am)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(October 3, 2020 at 10:58 am)JAG Wrote:

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Post Deleted. You have previously posted this exact text on at least two other websites.

LOL, really? Does this guy think that "I can feel God therefore God exists" is such a good argument that he's been posting it "all over" Internet?! I guess this happens when people read some religious book (in this case by WLC) but fail to read some book with opposing arguments.

If you're a Christian, and you want to spread God on atheist websites, it would be very helpful, to say at least, to read the opposing opinion first to get to know what you are getting yourself into.

You’re so silly. Christians proselytizers already know everything they need to know about atheists - we’re hopelessly immoral, we’re all committed Marxists, we burn churches, murder infants, don’t know right from wrong, hate God, want to end Christmas, and clearly have never read the Bible.

Studying up on atheism would be a waste of their valuable time, what with all those doorbells to ring and lawsuits to file.

Boru

FWIW, any notion that god exists (or any notion about anything at all) which is informed by some observed effect is categorically superior to any notion uninformed by the same.

I'd wonder whether the OP had ever considered that they might have the relationship backwards. Feeling is a god-making property, gods are not feeling-making agents. If there were no human feeling there would be no gods, but if there were no gods there is still human feeling - feeling is the incontrovertible fact referenced in argument, after all.