Quote:How many times do you have to ask a law abiding person "are you obeying the law?" before the question just becomes stupidly redundant? What does asking the same question over and over accomplish?

I think Boru made the reason pretty damn clear

(October 31, 2020 at 10:33 pm)Sal Wrote: I agree with onlinebiker on this. It's folly to think that legalising yourself to stricter gun control, would somehow magically affect actual "gun control" in equal measure.

I don't have a good impromptu solution, nor do I think there is one, when there are so bloody many of them around already in circulation. Any "gun control" measure has to take this prevalence in serious account, and the main hurdle as an outside observer, is the fetishism of guns.

Bold mine - That's sort of where my head was at when I asked about keeping guns out of the movies/TV.  Boru said he likes a good shoot 'em up show.  I'm not a big fan of action/adventure movies but my husband is.  There are times I have to put on headphones, or leave the room, to drown out the sound of explosions and hundreds of gunshots.   No one shoots at their target one time...no, they scatter and spray bullets all over the place and often what's shown is a body jumping around as it's hit over and over again...I have to think that's part of the fetishism.

There is a difference between gun fetishism and appreciation for a well-done action sequence

(October 31, 2020 at 10:01 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:

(October 31, 2020 at 7:27 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: How does better vetting target the law abiding? If you haven’t  broken any serious laws, if you’re not mentally unstable, and if you can demonstrate that you’re willing to use and store your weapons in a responsible manner, I don’t see why you SHOULDN’T be able to purchase a firearm. 

But you raise a fair point that if people who currently own firearms violate these provisions in future, they should no longer be allowed to own firearms.

We’re really not all that far apart on this.

Boru

How many times do you have to ask a law abiding person "are you obeying the law?" before the question just becomes stupidly redundant? What does asking the same question over and over accomplish?

I'm not sure I understand the questions. It isn't about repeatedly quizzing someone, it's about someone's actions and situations. Suppose Joe has been a law abiding gun owner for, I dunno, 20 years, and is then convicted of rape with violence.  I think that should disqualify him from being a gun owner. Or say he's never convicted of anything, but develops severe dementia to the point where he can't recognize his own family members.  He probably shouldn't be armed. Or imagine he leaves children alone with a loaded pistol and one child kills the other (much like what happened in Georgia fairly recently) - at the very least, Joe shouldn't be allowed to own guns.

How would standards like these damage YOUR gun ownership rights, or the rights of millions and millions of firearms owners who DON'T commit serious crimes, who are NOT a danger to other people, or who DO properly secure their weapons?

Boru

Already the case here in the US.

Quote:As spelled out in Chapter 44 of Title 18 of the United States Code (U.S.C.), federal law bans convicted felons from possessing firearms or ammunition. ... This rule covers all felonies, but does not apply to state misdemeanors that carry less than a two-year sentence.

-and you can add fugitives, drug addicts, the mentally ill, the dishonorably discharged, and illegal aliens. All of these groups are specifically barred by federal law from owning guns or ammo.....but there are only eight states with an explicit mechanism for ensuring that any guns in their possession are confiscated.

(November 1, 2020 at 5:33 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Already the case here in the US.

Quote:As spelled out in Chapter 44 of Title 18 of the United States Code (U.S.C.), federal law bans convicted felons from possessing firearms or ammunition. ... This rule covers all felonies, but does not apply to state misdemeanors that carry less than a two-year sentence.

-and you can add fugitives, drug addicts, the mentally ill, the dishonorably discharged, and illegal aliens.  All of these groups are specifically barred by federal law from owning guns or ammo.....but there are only eight states with an explicit mechanism for ensuring that any guns in their possession are confiscated.

So, there are 42 states where felons, fugitives, drug addicts, the mentally ill, the dishonorably discharged, and people in the US illegally could be in possession of firearms and nothing is done about it.

Does that strike you as a problem?

Boru

(November 1, 2020 at 4:32 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(October 31, 2020 at 10:01 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: How many times do you have to ask a law abiding person "are you obeying the law?" before the question just becomes stupidly redundant? What does asking the same question over and over accomplish?

I'm not sure I understand the questions. It isn't about repeatedly quizzing someone, it's about someone's actions and situations. Suppose Joe has been a law abiding gun owner for, I dunno, 20 years, and is then convicted of rape with violence.  I think that should disqualify him from being a gun owner. Or say he's never convicted of anything, but develops severe dementia to the point where he can't recognize his own family members.  He probably shouldn't be armed. Or imagine he leaves children alone with a loaded pistol and one child kills the other (much like what happened in Georgia fairly recently) - at the very least, Joe shouldn't be allowed to own guns.

How would standards like these damage YOUR gun ownership rights, or the rights of millions and millions of firearms owners who DON'T commit serious crimes, who are NOT a danger to other people, or who DO properly secure their weapons?

Boru

Sigh.....

Why should a law abiding gun owner have to go through the same rigamarole every time they buy a gun? Why all the goofy rules about barrel length, magazine capacity, and folding stocks? Why the restrictions on sound supressors? (That's a courtesy issue) 

If a person isn't the problem - what is the point of restricting them?

Aren't the bad guys the problem?

(October 31, 2020 at 6:31 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:

(October 31, 2020 at 6:26 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Personally, I like guns. Never owned one until I returned to the US in 1975. Fun controlling them. But I think they're useless for "defense". If you're open carry and someone comes for your gun or your neck they're ahead of you in the anger arc. You might never see them, just wake up in the ER or recovery suite after major surgery. Might as well hang a bull's eye around your neck.

That's what CCW is for.

And don't hang a bunch of pro 2nd ammendment bumper stickers on your car. It tells the thief to follow you to your house then wait for you to go to work - so they can break in and steal your stuff...

If you saw me in public it is highly unlikely you would suspect I carry a gun.

Agreed. And don't be a stereotype.

"I know the best place to look for a gun is in the glovebox of that pickup outside." (Remember that one?)

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(November 1, 2020 at 7:10 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Why should a law abiding gun owner have to go through the same rigamarole every time they buy a gun?

A person's profile can change quickly. One of the cousins had six domestic violence charges in two months. /example

(November 1, 2020 at 7:12 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(October 31, 2020 at 6:31 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: That's what CCW is for.

And don't hang a bunch of pro 2nd ammendment bumper stickers on your car. It tells the thief to follow you to your house then wait for you to go to work - so they can break in and steal your stuff...

If you saw me in public it is highly unlikely you would suspect I carry a gun.

Agreed. And don't be a stereotype.

"I know the best place to look for a gun is in the glovebox of that pickup outside." (Remember that one?)

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(November 1, 2020 at 7:10 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Why should a law abiding gun owner have to go through the same rigamarole every time they buy a gun?

A person's profile can change quickly. One of the cousins had six domestic violence charges in two months. /example

And how would a private seller know that?

Answer. - they can't.

When I worked at a gun shop - I sold several guns I owned at a gun show. I called BATF and asked if I could use the NICS system as a private seller.

Short answer - no fuckin' way.

....

My solution - to keep the problem children from buying my guns - I put a 4473 form on a stack of paper - giving the impression that I had a stack of 4473s - and was therefor a FFL dealer who woul6d do a NICS check on all buyers...

I can't say for sure it worked - but I did note a couple of shifty looking bastards lose interest when they saw the form....

Missed the private part. It's 0-dark-coffee here.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-cong...)%3B%20and