(February 1, 2021 at 2:33 am)Rahn127 Wrote:

(January 29, 2021 at 9:40 am)possibletarian Wrote: Why promise a pain and trouble free afterlife if pain is so important ?

Pain is important for biological life in this real world when it comes to survival.

After you are dead, survival isn't an issue.

That's what I was hinting at, why this life at all given that god could have gone directly to a pain free spiritual existence

Pain isn't a requirement anywhere. Frankly, the "spiritual existence" is the source of pain, as soul forgers have it. Our experiences are a part of our soul, not our body model. That's ghost stuff, not meat stuff.

There are people born without the ability to feel pain. You would think they would be superheroes or at least be really successful. They mostly just tear skin off their limbs and occasionally break their bones really bad because the pain system that usually presents a warning is absent and that turns out to be a bad thing.

Pain started Oct. 2019. Continuously and spreading since then.

I give up, I'll tell you anything you want to know.

(January 26, 2021 at 9:58 pm)Five Wrote: because in this existence, pain and suffering is all you know.

I doubt that! It's true that this world has a lot of pain, but to be fair there is a lot of joy too, you haven't had any good times in your life?

(January 26, 2021 at 9:58 pm)Five Wrote: therefore, no matter how terrible my experience(which this deity claims responsibility for) I better be grateful.

The God that punishes people for actions that they didn't make is an evil God, or whoever told you that is either deluded or he is lying.

(January 26, 2021 at 9:58 pm)Five Wrote: A perfect God(omnipotent) made an imperfect world

Capable of an imperfect world doesn't mean necessarily he's not capable of a perfect one.
If a stone landed on my head at somebody's fault how is that God's fault? should gravity stop working for a second? how gravity should work then if it's gonna start taking everybody's wishes under consideration? what if those wishes intersect?

In the same way, how is corrupted god scriptures is God's fault?

That's a great question.

Let's say someone did throw a rock at the back of someone's head, killing them. If you were watching, and could prevent that murder, and did nothing...what should we conclude about your character?

One man wishes to kill another, the other..likely, to live. Here those wishes intersect. Is this a moral dilemma for a god?

(February 9, 2021 at 12:28 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: That's a great question.

Let's say someone did throw a rock at the back of someone's head, killing them.  If you were watching, and could prevent that murder, and did nothing...what should we conclude about your character?

One man wishes to kill another, the other..likely, to live.  Here those wishes intersect.  Is this a moral dilemma for a god?

If God could give eternity in heaven for one condition which to be patient for 100 years to whatever happens to you at someplace, and you will be avenged for everything, how is that a moral dilemma?

We all die from aging does that mean God should have kept us alive?

You tell me. If you could prevent a person from dying, would you? That's exactly what the rock throwing scenario asks. Is there a moral dilemma here, for the god you believe in, such that it simply can't decide which of the two interests it should serve?

Or is this more of a bargaining with the divine kind of thing? Where I'm asked whether I'd put up with you or a god watching people hitting me in the back of the head with rocks for a century provided that I get eternity when the big one finally knocks me dead? OFC I wouldn't put up with that - if you were a cop you'd get fired. If you were a judge you'd be removed from the bench. Eternity with the people who've attempted to strike this bargain with me is no bargain in the first place.

Do you hold a builder accountable when the slum he erected collapses? Do you hold authorities accountable when they sit and passively watch injustice? It seems to me that answers to these questions have more to do with whether anyone will take you or your god up on that offer, than anything about a themepark in the sky. Here on earth, we'll confiscate your theme park to pay for damages for either of those things.

We can insist that there is some huge reward, but there are huge awards in cases of confiscation and damages too. The injustice isn't erased no matter the size of the reward. If someone slaps you in the face and then gives you a million lollipops..they still slapped you in the face. The situation couldn't be less dire if it's a dead child we're being asked to consider, rather than a slap in the face. A dead child because the builders slum collapsed. Or because the authorities sat and watched them be murdered by people with rocks...rocks, mind you, that they probably got from the rubble of said slumlords building.

(February 9, 2021 at 1:09 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: You tell me.  If you could prevent a person from dying, would you?  That's exactly what the rock throwing scenario asks.  Is there a moral dilemma here, for the god you believe in, such that it simply can't decide which of the two interests it should serve?

Or is this more of a bargaining with the divine kind of thing?  Where I'm asked whether I'd put up with you or a god watching people hitting me in the back of the head with rocks for a century provided that I get eternity when the big one finally knocks me dead?  OFC I wouldn't put up with that - if you were a cop you'd get fired.  If you were a judge you'd be removed from the bench.  Eternity with the people who've attempted to strike this bargain with me is no bargain in the first place.

Do you hold a builder accountable when the slum he erected collapses?  Do you hold authorities accountable when they sit and passively watch injustice?

I would definitely save the person because I accept something from god, or if I don't believe in god I would ask something from the person I saved,
or probably just to feel good about my self and probably so people praise me, other than that why would I care about morals? why would I risk anything for morals?

If God killed or let someone be killed, it's not a wrong thing for him, but for us it is.
because God gave life to whoever he killed, why is that wrong, did you create yourself?
in fact, you don't have the right to kill yourself unless whoever created you gives you permission.

You had me up until the first comma.

You may judge gods by lesser standards than you judge men, but I see little point in doing so. I also doubt that your moral intuitions would change much, if at all, if you woke up an apostate tomorrow.

I guess you'll just have to wait and see on that one, but, if your assessment really is true, you might want to consider turning yourself into the authorities whenever you feel doubts. Assuming that they're not the kind of authorities that passively watch, ofc - what I'm saying is that you might need a little more help than prayer can give you..on this one. Lest you fall on someone's head like a rock, gods creation that you are.