(April 2, 2021 at 4:03 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(April 2, 2021 at 4:00 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: That's possible. But doesn't that just kick the can down the road?

Even outside space exploration, humans have been "kicking the can down the road" on burning fossile fuels, and for far too long.

True, But that really addresses this particular can, And then there is the question of are we just going to have to keep building tougher ships till we can make them tougher?

(April 2, 2021 at 4:08 pm)SUNGULA Wrote:

(April 2, 2021 at 4:03 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Even outside space exploration, humans have been "kicking the can down the road" on burning fossile fuels, and for far too long.

True, But that really addresses this particular can, And then there is the question of are we just going to have to keep building tougher ships till we can make them tougher?

My ultimate take on our species is this. We are an invasive species. And right now, at this point in history, I don't think collectively we recognize at this point we are on the verge of becoming a victim of our own success. It is true we have made massive strides in knowlege and innovation, but at the same time, we have sped up concumption. And as much as we call innovation progress, of which not all is bad, we have sped up the pace of consumption. 

I most certianly love the fact I can use a laptop instead of the Pony express. But at the same time, the bigger human population increases, the more resources we comete for. I'd only point out, that the bigger our species population becomes, the more competition for resources there is, and the more expensive it becomes, and the more humans fight over those resources.

Ultimately, I really think humans need to focus on earth, here and now, and accept that human population managment is as important as resource managment. I love the idea of space exploration, but space tourism is bullshit right now.

(April 2, 2021 at 4:18 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(April 2, 2021 at 4:08 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: True, But that really addresses this particular can, And then there is the question of are we just going to have to keep building tougher ships till we can make them tougher?

My ultimate take on our species is this. We are an invasive species. And right now, at this point in history, I don't think collectively we recognize at this point we are on the verge of becoming a victim of our own success. It is true we have made massive strides in knowlege and innovation, but at the same time, we have sped up concumption. And as much as we call innovation progress, of which not all is bad, we have sped up the pace of consumption. 

I most certianly love the fact I can use a laptop instead of the Pony express. But at the same time, the bigger human population increases, the more resources we comete for. I'd only point out, that the bigger our species population becomes, the more competition for resources there is, and the more expensive it becomes, and the more humans fight over those resources.

Ultimately, I really think humans need to focus on earth, here and now, and accept that human population managment is as important as resource managment. I love the idea of space exploration, but space tourism is bullshit right now.

Not sure I agree with the invasive species part. But yeah for the most part I agree with this.

I’ve been aware of this problem for years. You remember Gravity and how a big part of it is Sandra Bullock having to dodge space debris and even having to witness the ISS and its Chinese equivalent get reduced to rubble? That’s a real thing (or at least theoretically a real thing) called Kessler Syndrome.

Remember Newton’s First Law? An object in motion tends to stay in motion unless acted upon by an outside force. Well, a lot of those outside forces we take for granted on Earth do not exist in outer space, so an object in motion in orbit will stay in motion until it hits something else, likely at a speed that could do damage to that thing, creating more debris, perpetuating a cycle until (and this hasn’t happened yet, fortunately) there’s so much debris in Earth’s orbit that it becomes extremely dangerous to actually go back into space.

(April 2, 2021 at 4:00 pm)SUNGULA Wrote:

(April 2, 2021 at 3:55 pm)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: Yes.

The phenomenon is even named after some one who thought of it first/a while ago, 'Kessler'.

My thoughts are that 'If' the problem becomes worse. We will simply build vessels 'Tough' enough to withstand the near orbit environment.

Not necessarily 'armored' ships. Just 'Wipple' sheilds will do for most stuff.

Heck if Oumuamua and Comet2I/Borisov are any indication we'll need such methods for building space vessels any way. 

Cheers.

That's possible. But doesn't that just kick the can down the road?

Well... not quite.

'If' the Kessler syndrome becomes bad enough tat the vessel's we send into spce MUST be tough enough to surive any particle encounters (Which, technically they already are. Look for images of the former Space Shuttle damage from particle strikes as examples) then they'll simply act as space going 'Brooms' sweeping things clear again.

I point out Oumuamua and Comet2I to highlight that 'Space' is not as empty as we possibly think, even adding our own objects up into the mix.

A particle of 'Dust' thrown off a passing comet is just as bad as a particle of paint thrown off a vehicle.

Cheers.

Not at work.

(April 2, 2021 at 4:23 pm)SUNGULA Wrote:

(April 2, 2021 at 4:18 pm)Brian37 Wrote: My ultimate take on our species is this. We are an invasive species. And right now, at this point in history, I don't think collectively we recognize at this point we are on the verge of becoming a victim of our own success. It is true we have made massive strides in knowlege and innovation, but at the same time, we have sped up concumption. And as much as we call innovation progress, of which not all is bad, we have sped up the pace of consumption. 

I most certianly love the fact I can use a laptop instead of the Pony express. But at the same time, the bigger human population increases, the more resources we comete for. I'd only point out, that the bigger our species population becomes, the more competition for resources there is, and the more expensive it becomes, and the more humans fight over those resources.

Ultimately, I really think humans need to focus on earth, here and now, and accept that human population managment is as important as resource managment. I love the idea of space exploration, but space tourism is bullshit right now.

Not sure I agree with the invasive species part. But yeah for the most part I agree with this.

Humans at this point in biological history, have the most power to do the most short term damage to life than any other species. And by "invasive" we are too fucking stupid to see, that as many buildings we build, and as many trees we cut down, and as much trash we dump in the ocean, just in order to build the next "tallest building in the world", or the next "BUT WAIT, ACT NOW, AND WE WILL DOUBLE YOUR ORDER" bullshit ad, we, don't seem to understand worldwide, collectively, that we cannot simply exploit, and expand and consume our species way to prosperity.

I have long since noticed, every time I go into a box store, just the shere number of individual items, from cloths, to toys, to atomotive, to tvs, to video games, to shoes, to clothing, to food. In one single Walmart, that is hundreds of thousands of individual items. That is not the collective worldwide sale of any store. Point is, humans are masters at production, but we are lousy at thinking about long term concumption.

(April 2, 2021 at 4:32 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(April 2, 2021 at 4:23 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: Not sure I agree with the invasive species part. But yeah for the most part I agree with this.

Humans at this point in biological history, have the most power to do the most short term damage to life than any other species. And by "invasive" we are too fucking stupid to see, that as many buildings we build, and as many trees we cut down, and as much trash we dump in the ocean, just in order to build the next "tallest building in the world", or the next "BUT WAIT, ACT NOW, AND WE WILL DOUBLE YOUR ORDER" bullshit ad, we, don't seem to understand worldwide, collectively, that we cannot simply exploit, and expand and consume our species way to prosperity.

I have long since noticed, every time I go into a box store, just the shere number of individual items, from cloths, to toys, to atomotive, to tvs, to video games, to shoes, to clothing, to food. In one single Walmart, that is hundreds of thousands of individual items. That is not the collective worldwide sale of any store. Point is, humans are masters at production, but we are lousy at thinking about long term concumption.

You are pointing out 'Symptoms' not cures.

For Humans to continue to thrive and flourish as those in 'Lesser' places wish to do as they've seen the more developed Countreis of the world do then we MUST continue to gather and process rescourses.

Since people acknowledge that doing so from Earth are 'bad' as in increasingly expensive AS said non replenishable elements are processed at increased rates to furnish increased Humans then we simply MUST spread the work load out into the surrounding solar system.

Stripping floating items such as Psyche 16 https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/asteroids-c.../in-depth/ and relocating minerals from other bodys back to Earth would seem to be the way to go.

Cheers.

Not at work.

(April 2, 2021 at 3:50 pm)SUNGULA Wrote:

(April 2, 2021 at 3:43 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Well, we could focus on your inability to spell and incorrect word usage.  Supposedly you are also educated but too lazy to learn the difference between accept and except.

Do so because 


About your opinions on my writing or my education

Ignorance is bliss...you must be one happy mf-er.

(April 2, 2021 at 1:54 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Many scientists are warning that too much space debree orbiting our planet can eventually make space exploration impossible. Humans for the past 50-60 years have launched rockets and sattlites at increasing rates. Humans have increasingly left space trash in orbit, and even something as small as a dime traveling at 20,000mph can be fatal to say things like the space station if they hit the right spot. 

This is why I get a lip twitch with the idea of space tourism. Yes it would be nice in theory if people could travel into space in mass cheaply like going to the beach. But the more vehicles we launch into space, and let orbit until they become trash, the more potential missles/bullets become a landmine for future vechles. One might look at it like polluting the oceans. Yes the oceans are big, but the more we over exploit, and the more pollution we dump into the oceans, the more our resources become threatened. 

Scientists warn that too much space junk orbiting our planet will be simply like creating a mine feild that grows bigger and bigger. 

https://www.colorado.edu/today/2020/05/2...nk-problem

Uhem,    Do you suppose space tourism will take off, so to speak, if space tourists are “launch[ed] into space, and let orbit until they become trash”?