That MalcolmX's argument may describe a diversity hire doesn't imply that it does describe a diversity hire any more than the fact that I might be a master chef implies that I am one. That's a non sequitur.

(May 7, 2021 at 3:37 pm)Drich Wrote: not worth the effort.. i'm not going to reproduce my whole argument just for you. if you are too lazy to read the other posts i've made/that pertain to the subject you jump in late on, then too bad. it all out there.. the times dates and even clarity in me defining 'untested.' stop wasting my time with spell check.. you are simply not worth the effort as you run and hide from fact behind spelling and grammar as if that someone how proves your facts/position.

No one said it does. It just demonstrates your general lack of knowlegde about ALL subjects ... you have no education. 
You have no argument to reproduce. Other than my pointing out the fact that you are too lazy and incompetent to use a spell-checker,
I always make a point.

Quote:what is wrong with you? don't you know what and ad hom attack invalidates any legit argument ou may have an activity demonstrates a concession to me concerning you ability to speak topically?

It was a fucking joke, dimwit. 

Quote:  
that said to answer your question my mind/dyslexic as it is fills in those blanks. I literally do not see it unless the computer points it out. the words do not move on the page anymore but i still auto correct unless i reexamine everything letter by letter. which again i would have have done for more serious people and discussions. you hide from real discussion in so much logical fallacy and bullying you are a shake the dust from my feet and move on type of person.

Your computer OBVIOUSLY does not perform that function. You are too dimwitted to arrange that. 

Quote:meaning deal with it or move on. you are a two to 5 min post. and despite what i say you answers are all the same no matter the subject or my position. Find a tertiary matter not connected to the discussion and use it to attack me personally. again this is what stupid people do. if you are then one of those people then why should i clean up what i write to you, if anything it should help you/give you comfort in that you can doubt my intelligence and have a way out of the discussion when you get in over your head topically. All i'm asking is you keep the ashom bs to yourself..

If and when I need any advice from the likes of you, I'll be sure and ask. 
I refuted your arguments as usual.

(May 7, 2021 at 4:41 pm)Drich Wrote:

(May 6, 2021 at 5:33 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote: I don't like walls of text.  I didn't feel that cutting out your dictionary definition added anything to the discussion.

I am only replying to make my opinion clear.

Yes, quotas and hiring people based on race is a type of discrimination.  Ideally, the best people from a pool of candidates should be chosen.

However, there are 2 caveats to this

this is never the case. it's not 1920 any more. no one out to make money is going to hire a white idiot just because he is white over a black or other minority who has years experience. (unless the idiot in question is related and he would trump a white skilled worker.

Quote:1) Top government appointments are not just about hiring someone. They are also about placing people in power who represent the population. 

again listen to the malcolm X recording. he agrees but for a different reason. he says they are put in government position as token "Knee-grows" (his word) as a measure to control the black population. as the people appointed those jobs know they would never have earned them they can often tims be used as puppets, and are being used to manipulate the black community.

Quote: If you think the population should be color-blind and accept a whole ton of white guys, think again.  How has that worked out for minority rights?

again why? who cares about skin color if the most qualified is doing everything he can? case in point. donald trump and his admin has arguably done more for the black community than ever president that came before all the way back to lincoln. this includes Obama.

Quote:2) If your hiring does not represent the diversity that is already in a qualified applicant pool, then it is likely your hiring procedures are biased. 

just because a given minority group represents say 30% of the population does not mean that all 30% are to be considered "qualified applicants.." that's the problem.. 30% of a given population can sometimes only represent 2 or 3% of said applicants.. now say out of a 100 people applying for a job 3 minorities show up.. what are the chances that those three are the top qualified for this job? what if they were in the bottom 10% of applicants skill/ability level.  Now rather than hiring the best of the best you are forced to hire someone who can not hurt your company rather than contribute to it.

Quote:That is not about finding "diversity hires", that is about making sure your criteria aren't missing out on truly great talent because people tend to "hire people like them". 

you are talking about finding rare unicorns people who will make it no matter the field or skin color. people who do not want or need diversity programs (like me, who turned down a free ride to school because i knew i could not read well enough to even graduate high yet because of a quota situation i could have bumped a hardworking well deserving white kid) I even passed on grants to the vocational school i went to, i just worked longer. almost 3 years picking up and mopping floors after real mechanics.

Quote: Checking the actual results of hiring for bias, rather than hiding behind "well, we hired who we thought was best" is correct, not discrimination.

I will agree that some people's views of hiring can be discriminatory.  If the talent pool is not diverse, some people think that diversity hires should be chosen regardless. 

that's the law...

Quote: You can't, without reducing your standards (as you have argued).  Some feel that it is a company's job to somehow improve diversity of the talent pool (as if they are responsible for everyone's career choices).  Unless they are a huge corporation, giving money for university scholarships, that just isn't possible.

and given how the law works you do not see this as a problem? lets say you own a repair shop and are forced to hire a minority or female.. granted there are many many minorities who gravitate towards this field.. but very few are certified as master mechanics. those who are tend to open their own businesses and do very well servicing people who speak their language or share their culture. but most of the rest are grossly incompetent. or have a substance problem or they steal.. now you have to hire and fire 10 to 15 people to find maybe one who will last 1 or 2 years.

Quote:My argument is that with 200 million working people to choose from, the talent pool for top government appointments is quite diverse. 

if you don't hire and fire people.. if your not in it you can say that, but i don't see it. my contemporaries don't see it. white blk no one wants to work. no one wants to earn it.

Quote: Also, there is a democratic and political reason why the hires at the top levels should be diverse.  Biden choosing a diverse cabinet is a positive.

Have you been told by Fox News that his cabinet, because they aren't all old white guys, are not qualified?

again look at what malcom x had to say about this.

Boru

(May 7, 2021 at 6:36 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(May 7, 2021 at 4:41 pm)Drich Wrote: this is never the case. it's not 1920 any more. no one out to make money is going to hire a white idiot just because he is white over a black or other minority who has years experience. (unless the idiot in question is related and he would trump a white skilled worker.
again listen to the malcolm X recording. he agrees but for a different reason. he says they are put in government position as token "Knee-grows" (his word) as a measure to control the black population. as the people appointed those jobs know they would never have earned them they can often tims be used as puppets, and are being used to manipulate the black community.

again why? who cares about skin color if the most qualified is doing everything he can? case in point. donald trump and his admin has arguably done more for the black community than ever president that came before all the way back to lincoln. this includes Obama.
just because a given minority group represents say 30% of the population does not mean that all 30% are to be considered "qualified applicants.." that's the problem.. 30% of a given population can sometimes only represent 2 or 3% of said applicants.. now say out of a 100 people applying for a job 3 minorities show up.. what are the chances that those three are the top qualified for this job? what if they were in the bottom 10% of applicants skill/ability level.  Now rather than hiring the best of the best you are forced to hire someone who can not hurt your company rather than contribute to 

you are talking about finding rare unicorns people who will make it no matter the field or skin color. people who do not want or need diversity programs (like me, who turned down a free ride to school because i knew i could not read well enough to even graduate high yet because of a quota situation i could have bumped a hardworking well deserving white kid) I even passed on grants to the vocational school i went to, i just worked longer. almost 3 years picking up and mopping floors after real mechanics.
that's the law...
and given how the law works you do not see this as a problem? lets say you own a repair shop and are forced to hire a minority or female.. granted there are many many minorities who gravitate towards this field.. but very few are certified as master mechanics. those who are tend to open their own businesses and do very well servicing people who speak their language or share their culture. but most of the rest are grossly incompetent. or have a substance problem or they steal.. now you have to hire and fire 10 to 15 people to find maybe one who will last 1 or 2 years.
if you don't hire and fire people.. if your not in it you can say that, but i don't see it. my contemporaries don't see it. white blk no one wants to work. no one wants to earn it.
again look at what malcom x had to say about this.

Boru

Derpch in a nutshell 

yom ehagdoèlle iph îhteb ttonwi deeðt rgegm loteg etofa lewrof ih ta essii noedhe beszi etinȝtinn ìeðtha riguaþc oi edoangibd oneaty lapedire assowa ncech ityaelfe ruitnetahs edr oamned ssa ehst sberätsi er drèeshet wngaes innywg cua oneþihe goytowep amit þfe reraeþpüs wyezapepe outwho tekbifweh fdþiciroo deþededaþ teþaðsa wha efsnëota flneðk eamang ðfoniom moulp oarsarbe ssnelbika ohôy ḍïc se nlarurfo mueno ebeys hedt erœs peth wneþ awfiȝ ðyþinoþ scallp cdedþ uðâg illed ôiþe rnitas wifesed cme fied ssar ssorotv edtedidta rtangaf gyalmor nance tiesih ailatf esdep dseelieta ngoþrahioy a tleriðon dðéloma dutt anavh ess y hpte onæf siçopefo depatio etarp oyton wedr iþmaodse rne theƒta veðede wnþïwso þhaoh þlt tehrt thsaeg uccea tofs þehṭða tihega hðre cistat so neiedu enatcyead koothitl hydd bwðouta se hinen ineidafg þhaiuds tenwet yðoãknra mter ylþt o vet pfhalur gebiþ cvare veh dþovni ða styefe ðehiþoosȝ a ibad noþtæy õtxesit tþheeðdoo iflinedl recrte bteg ufþedþ emnnu tõiwàiw þdee ietgad ve knou jesa breàvoþ rarbôm feþðesy uto bi songa rwo dþelos puesh neoyahu ntesuf dlriof yaps ufte tôead lpsiyst þpi esa ede adaodafa þv ti nedae mefet laelverb wssiestin dta tottsea aniewk þocsuaf eolsear derannoeb inweresh etihkeew iennansa ltets wte aðoh squ aþihþ lemiit.dnerodð hetgeo isœouni no ursea owacoyoh edryo osn atyeneeþés dyesquu udkseð eiaranto tainy afstð kim adninfmel iyonsoo çðabaey uptedifn çofewt þheþ nfôn eardoèl dtyrød dwmoroke etøtoes uiresyo orat ksaeð hnet þadel kdabþi ibo ceemnoh hases e ehäþ diyllþiþ eore ywi imtato afttassens tefru tooghoaḍna aier hhae risanois hunkhin pyonit fosoiu anutene edtukdef ybêf rhesir egedoi beerner athi matngetðe kiƒga ihü nonþæh edonin foumafampa droco ḍene laoatiess ðueaðto esopao hdre wenhoþ nawþedehȝ ttetolung rtryh ihlayyx fsetagi eedo ehitese ti ok saðw athyta lanoig raneudíab bietked kdþipe ssohai rewoh paifð owhoungo dneeþoa motnectaþc waliñtag ga mun taeḥoet oas srede dedio mevwé þyhti ere þhedt soohsged ilh ðmeþitne hsh debm hitoot uðlplîoi a fy fedi ireþønwh la geew itgutede neti lheuþ oucaesef cesl

A long winded barrage of ignorance and stupidity

(May 7, 2021 at 5:21 pm)Angrboda Wrote: That MalcolmX's argument may describe a diversity hire doesn't imply that it does describe a diversity hire any more than the fact that I might be a master chef implies that I am one.  That's a non sequitur.

you clearly did not listen to the message.

He specifically said that giving black people these token jobs in government (jobs they did not earn or overly qualified for) were ways to put black leader in those position under control and authority of the liberal government specifically. and they the controlled black leaders was direct the population where ever the liberals dir4ected the leadership to go.

maybe read/learn before you just automatically dismiss something you can figure out (like how in the world malcolm x would speak against something you hold near and dear) Here's the thing. Malcom X hated the liberal agenda and how he saw black people being used and exploited for political gain by giving them token 'white' jobs. listen to the recording to he him say those words himself.

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(May 7, 2021 at 5:44 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote:

(May 7, 2021 at 3:37 pm)Drich Wrote: not worth the effort.. i'm not going to reproduce my whole argument just for you. if you are too lazy to read the other posts i've made/that pertain to the subject you jump in late on, then too bad. it all out there.. the times dates and even clarity in me defining 'untested.' stop wasting my time with spell check.. you are simply not worth the effort as you run and hide from fact behind spelling and grammar as if that someone how proves your facts/position.

No one said it does. It just demonstrates your general lack of knowlegde about ALL subjects ... you have no education. 
You have no argument to reproduce. Other than my pointing out the fact that you are too lazy and incompetent to use a spell-checker,
I always make a point.

Quote:what is wrong with you? don't you know what and ad hom attack invalidates any legit argument ou may have an activity demonstrates a concession to me concerning you ability to speak topically?

It was a fucking joke, dimwit. 

Quote:  
that said to answer your question my mind/dyslexic as it is fills in those blanks. I literally do not see it unless the computer points it out. the words do not move on the page anymore but i still auto correct unless i reexamine everything letter by letter. which again i would have have done for more serious people and discussions. you hide from real discussion in so much logical fallacy and bullying you are a shake the dust from my feet and move on type of person.

Your computer OBVIOUSLY does not perform that function. You are too dimwitted to arrange that. 

Quote:meaning deal with it or move on. you are a two to 5 min post. and despite what i say you answers are all the same no matter the subject or my position. Find a tertiary matter not connected to the discussion and use it to attack me personally. again this is what stupid people do. if you are then one of those people then why should i clean up what i write to you, if anything it should help you/give you comfort in that you can doubt my intelligence and have a way out of the discussion when you get in over your head topically. All i'm asking is you keep the ashom bs to yourself..

If and when I need any advice from the likes of you, I'll be sure and ask. 
I refuted your arguments as usual.

still smart enough to play you like a marionette. your whole post is one big ad hom mess. just like i said it was. which only validates my point. which also validates my conclusion: putting any effort into my posts to you is a complete waste of time.  AS I spelled this out for you in my last post/giving you a heads up on how i was going to call you out and condemn your cave man approach to any topic you are clearly not well versed in.  and all i had to do is truthfully admit to a little perceived weakness among the ignorantly educated.. You are a dying breed of pseudo intellectual. meaning your understanding and value in what you have been told is an education/makes you a better person, is and has been free for a very long time. and anyone with a computer and 3 oz of effort has you beat. because it is not about retention of knowledge any more. it about having the resources to access knowledge and the ability to not only retain but to us it to map out bigger pictures.

You do not have this ability. i don't think we have ever had an in depth discussion that focused on any sort of bigger pic. you are a one source wonder. (it is a wonder if you ever reference a source) let alone have the ability to expound on it or tie it to another principle or idea. no all you argument default to your idea of an education.. ie you will only accept information if it comes of a very specific format. it has to come down from what you considered to be an educated person. so basically so long as my spelling and grammar were flawless you and people who's minds have been consumed by the propaganda of single source education would listen and completely believe anything i had to say. and if i show up fit and trim wearing expensive cloths and held a hand full of diploma's with my name on them you would give me the keys to your mind/life.

this has already happened so many times in history you can set a generational clock by it.

here's how your broken mind works in a nut shell: dismiss everything not prepackaged in a respectively 'educated' package. why? because the collective of all thing educated has your very same interests in mind and will make the world a better place with you on top of it because you invested you life in this pursuit. 

As with the germans, the russians, the chinese, the north Koreans, the japanese who used 'science' and education (called propaganda to everyone on the outside of their given level of education) IE top german scientist people literally like einstein/his literal peers telling germans the jews were not human, the people who believed in any version of God out side the 'positive christian/church of germany' were fooled by satan, or the chinese who's top scientist tell their people there can be no God and go so far as to make it illegal to worship under threat of death and reeducation camps for the families...

if you are so indoctrinated here what makes you stop from crossing those lines when those well educated start teaching the unvaccinated people are not citizens? that non tax paying church people are not citizens and are not protected by the constitution? that they should not have business and it is their white privilege that is keeping a well educated man like yourself from earning a federally mandated 20.00 per hour.. after all your the educated one it cant be your fault you failed to launch.. 

What stops you? Probably going to end up getting alot of the same answers.

Wow, what a disingenuous thread.

Biden has done a good job at not being a self-worshipping, chaos-loving ego maniac and pathological liar; a morally bankrupt fraud of an identity with a god complex and the emotional range of an angry toddler with a hot load in his diaper. Isn’t that all that really matters? “But the economy” is not a valid argument here. Trumpers need to stop comparing him to actual human beings. It’s a category error.

(May 7, 2021 at 5:21 pm)Angrboda Wrote: That MalcolmX's argument may describe a diversity hire doesn't imply that it does describe a diversity hire any more than the fact that I might be a master chef implies that I am one. That's a non sequitur.

And, of course, the fact that X might have been describing the white supremacist power structure and how it can claim "you see, we've fixed your problems, black people. We've got a politician on our team who looks like you" and use that as a substitute for actually creating policies to help the communities, maybe try and bring them on an even keel with the white communities, and that this is a far bigger problem than mere diversity hires.

I suppose it's possible to argue that Malcolm X would have been against such "diversity hires," but, bear in mind, affirmative action programs exist to increase representation in higher positions of power, and, for most of his public career, he advocated for a black ethnostate because he thought the systemic issues I talked about earlier are so entrenched they might not actually be surmountable anymore.

Of course, as for Martin Luther King and affirmative action, well, look no further than this interview between Alex Haley and MLK on a very early affirmative action program [redacted for modern sensibilities, with changes in brackets]:

Quote:Haley: Do you feel it’s fair to request a multibillion-dollar program of preferential treatment for the [black man], or for any other minority group?

King: I do indeed. Can any fair-minded citizen deny that the [black man] has been deprived? Few people reflect that for two centuries the [black man] was enslaved, and robbed of any wages—potential accrued wealth which would have been the legacy of his descendants. All of America’s wealth today could not adequately compensate its [black men] for his centuries of exploitation and humiliation. It is an economic fact that a program such as I propose would certainly cost far less than any computation of two centuries of unpaid wages plus accumulated interest. In any case, I do not intend that this program of economic aid should apply only to the [black man]; it should benefit the disadvantaged of all races.

Affirmative Action is a flawed solution, I know, but compared with just hiring "the best man for the job," let's face it, realistically, "the best man for the job" is far more likely to be a white man specifically because we've had all the advantages for the past four centuries, and ignoring that ensures that nothing changes. Perhaps someday, there'll be a time that you can reasonably assume that the identity of "the best man for the job" isn't coloured by our past and present racial inequalities, but this ain't it. I'd love it if we could be colour-blind, but we don't live in a world where that's a viable reality yet. We may be getting there, and we're certainly closer than we were in 1970, but we're nowhere near out of the woods yet.

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(May 10, 2021 at 5:50 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Biden has done a good job at not being a self-worshipping, chaos-loving ego maniac and pathological liar; a morally bankrupt fraud of an identity with a god complex and the emotional range of an angry toddler with a hot load in his diaper. Isn’t that all that really matters?

You kidding? These days, acting like a human diaper with no regard for others, truth, or observable reality is probably a huge plus for a conservative candidate.

I spent four years opening up the news app on my laptop or phone with one eye closed so I could ease more slowly into the clusterfuck of the day.

Now I can open those apps and see that President Biden simply picked a dandelion and gave it to his wife. Or - or - that a qualified individual was put in charge of something instead of an ass-kissing, inept crony.

I am appreciating the calm. I even appreciate what is probably seen as mundane and boring.