A clinical psychologist explains how Ayn Rand seduced young minds and helped turn the US into a selfish nation
rawstory.com

Quote:Only rarely in U.S. history do writers transform us to become a more caring or less caring nation. In the 1850s, Harriet Beecher Stowe (1811-1896) was a strong force in making the United States a more humane nation, one that would abolish slavery of African Americans. A century later, Ayn Rand (1905-1982) helped make the United States into one of the most uncaring nations in the industrialized world, a neo-Dickensian society where healthcare is only for those who can afford it, and where young people are coerced into huge student-loan debt that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.

Rand’s impact has been widespread and deep. At the iceberg’s visible tip is the influence she’s had over major political figures who have shaped American society. In the 1950s, Ayn Rand read aloud drafts of what was later to become Atlas Shrugged to her “Collective,” Rand’s ironic nickname for her inner circle of young individualists, which included Alan Greenspan, who would serve as chairman of the Federal Reserve Board from 1987 to 2006.

In 1966, Ronald Reagan wrote in a personal letter, “Am an admirer of Ayn Rand.” Today, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) credits Rand for inspiring him to go into politics, and Sen. Ron Johnson (R-WI) calls Atlas Shrugged his “foundation book.” Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) says Ayn Rand had a major influence on him, and his son Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) is an even bigger fan. A short list of other Rand fans includes Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas; Christopher Cox, chairman of the Security and Exchange Commission in George W. Bush’s second administration; and former South Carolina governor Mark Sanford.

But Rand’s impact on U.S. society and culture goes even deeper.

Read more at the link, it's a long article.

(June 13, 2021 at 10:24 pm)Foxaire Wrote:

Quote:young people are coerced into huge student-loan debt that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.

You could discharge your student loan debt in bankruptcy before 2005. Then Biden supported a bill making it impossible. 

Quote:“Biden was one of the most powerful people who could have said no, who could have changed this. Instead he used his leadership role to limit the ability of other Democrats who had concerns and who wanted the bill softened,” said Melissa Jacoby, a law professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill specialising in bankruptcy.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019...5-act-2020

During the campaign he promised to help people with student loans, but recently he announced he wouldn't. 

So there are people closer to home whom we can blame, not just dead authors.

(June 13, 2021 at 10:47 pm)Belacqua Wrote: During the campaign he promised to help people with student loans, but recently he announced he wouldn't. 

Really? When did Biden say that he would not help with the student loan? And if he did, why is Elizabeth Warren still expecting him to cancel at least $50 thousand?

Quote:In March, White House Chief of Staff Ron Klain told Politico that President Biden had asked Education Secretary Miguel Cardona to compile a memo on whether the president has the legal authority to forgive $50,000 in student loan debt through executive order. The Education Department has not responded to requests for comment on the memo.

"Canceling $50,000 in student loan debt would be the single most effective executive action that President Biden could take to provide massive consumer-driven stimulus for our economy and to advance real racial justice throughout our nation," Warren said. "Data from the Department of Education reveals that if we canceled $50,000 of student loan debt, 84% of borrowers — that's 36 million people — would have their student loans completely wiped out."

https://money.yahoo.com/student-loan-for...21360.html

Rand certainly had an effect in decades past, but I don't hear many people talk about her now.

In an era of the "Red Scare", Rand was popular, and I remember reading "Anthem" and liking it. It was an anti-communist book.

Most young people who read The Fountainhead outgrow it. As the article says, Rand believed that altruism was either evil or didn't exist. You should do good for others ONLY if it benefits you in some way. You can give a gift if it makes you feel good, but don't ever claim it was for their benefit. There should never be something done solely for someone else's benefit. Anyone who claims they are doing so are self-deluded or liars.

I think it is true that all motivations are internal. You help others for some internal reason. That could be love, fairness, justice, reciprocity, a sense of connection. Rand's problem is that she despises motivations that are not objectively beneficial to you. She fetishises selfishness.

It's not my fault. The (insert scapegoat) made me do it.

Poor, poor, pitiful me.

Individualism is a strong asset but fails when taken to extreme, due to the loss of cooperation.  See recent presidency.

She certainly influenced the libertarian movement of the last 20 years.  I've noted several republican friends hide behind the libertarian tag, while climate-denying and calling for deregulation.  It's as if they never heard of robber barons.

Most importantly, she was the inspiration for Rush 2112.  As Geddy Lee commented years later, "Then, you go on to read other things."

(June 13, 2021 at 10:24 pm)Foxaire Wrote: A clinical psychologist explains how Ayn Rand seduced young minds and helped turn the US into a selfish nation
rawstory.com

Quote:Only rarely in U.S. history do writers transform us to become a more caring or less caring nation. In the 1850s, Harriet Beecher Stowe (1811-1896) was a strong force in making the United States a more humane nation, one that would abolish slavery of African Americans. A century later, Ayn Rand (1905-1982) helped make the United States into one of the most uncaring nations in the industrialized world, a neo-Dickensian society where healthcare is only for those who can afford it, and where young people are coerced into huge student-loan debt that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.

Rand’s impact has been widespread and deep. At the iceberg’s visible tip is the influence she’s had over major political figures who have shaped American society. In the 1950s, Ayn Rand read aloud drafts of what was later to become Atlas Shrugged to her “Collective,” Rand’s ironic nickname for her inner circle of young individualists, which included Alan Greenspan, who would serve as chairman of the Federal Reserve Board from 1987 to 2006.

In 1966, Ronald Reagan wrote in a personal letter, “Am an admirer of Ayn Rand.” Today, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) credits Rand for inspiring him to go into politics, and Sen. Ron Johnson (R-WI) calls Atlas Shrugged his “foundation book.” Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) says Ayn Rand had a major influence on him, and his son Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) is an even bigger fan. A short list of other Rand fans includes Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas; Christopher Cox, chairman of the Security and Exchange Commission in George W. Bush’s second administration; and former South Carolina governor Mark Sanford.

But Rand’s impact on U.S. society and culture goes even deeper.

Read more at the link, it's a long article.

Ayn Rand can most certainly be claimed to the start of the selfish bent of America in politics. But to be fair, I also hate the idiots who sport "Che" avatars, you know, the guy who lead to Castro's Cuba.

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(June 14, 2021 at 2:34 pm)Ranjr Wrote: Individualism is a strong asset but fails when taken to extreme, due to the loss of cooperation.  See recent presidency.

She certainly influenced the libertarian movement of the last 20 years.  I've noted several republican friends hide behind the libertarian tag, while climate-denying and calling for deregulation.  It's as if they never heard of robber barons.

Most importantly, she was the inspiration for Rush 2112.  As Geddy Lee commented years later, "Then, you go on to read other things."

The problem in modern America is that everything has become a black and white/either or proposition.

It is not wrong to be selfish to save money. It is wrong however, to go beyond that self preservation and let greed take over.

If you are struggling you cant always help others, in that context you cant help others until you stabilize yourself. But when you get to the wealth of Jeff Bezos, that is beyond self preservation, and becomes narcissism. Ayn Rand gave a voice to narcissists.

(June 14, 2021 at 8:34 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(June 13, 2021 at 10:24 pm)Foxaire Wrote: A clinical psychologist explains how Ayn Rand seduced young minds and helped turn the US into a selfish nation
rawstory.com

Read more at the link, it's a long article.

Ayn Rand can most certainly be claimed to the start of the selfish bent of America in politics. But to be fair, I also hate the idiots who sport "Che" avatars, you know, the guy who lead to Castro's Cuba.

Help me out, here - what on Earth does Che Guevara have to do with selfishness in US politics?

Not saying you’re wrong, I just don’t see the connection.

Boru

(June 14, 2021 at 8:34 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(June 13, 2021 at 10:24 pm)Foxaire Wrote: A clinical psychologist explains how Ayn Rand seduced young minds and helped turn the US into a selfish nation
rawstory.com

Read more at the link, it's a long article.

Ayn Rand can most certainly be claimed to the start of the selfish bent of America in politics. But to be fair, I also hate the idiots who sport "Che" avatars, you know, the guy who lead to Castro's Cuba.

But are those Che-shirt jackasses actually having an impact on America's absurdly toxic political scene and rendering the whole fucking thing a dead-end where everybody's concerned with winning and nothing actually getting done?

(June 14, 2021 at 8:40 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(June 14, 2021 at 8:34 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Ayn Rand can most certainly be claimed to the start of the selfish bent of America in politics. But to be fair, I also hate the idiots who sport "Che" avatars, you know, the guy who lead to Castro's Cuba.

Help me out, here - what on Earth does Che Guevara have to do with selfishness in US politics?

Not saying you’re wrong, I just don’t see the connection.

Boru

Opposite extremes of the same coin. Ayn Rand gave voice eventually to the "fuck you I got mine" mentality, and Che gave rise to "fuck capitalism".

FYI Fidel Castro died with a personal estimated wealth of $800 million. 

Truth be told worldwide, this is why I hate labels. Even Hitler once he consolidated power, became a very rich man by forcing his population to buy "Mein Kompf". It wasn't the reason he rose to absolute power, but once in that seat of power, he had the power to force Germans to buy his propaganda. 

There is no power in past or present history, that does not have wealth, friend or foe alike, open or closed state, all top powers invest in the global market. It always takes money and resources to keep power, regardless of autocracy, theocracy, dictatorship, open or closed state.