(November 2, 2021 at 1:53 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Skepticism is doubt, not disbelief.

edit: actually ancient Greek skepticism is disbelief, so that's not completely right.

I was thinking of skepticism as more of a process, than a conclusion.

As in, the process that leads to disbelief, if the demonstrable and falsifiable evidence, and valid and sound logic does not support the claim.

The cynics thought that our supernatural gods were bogus, that there was only one true..wait for it...natural god. Additionally, that pleasure and pain both distracted the soul, or prevented the soul, from realizing it's true potential or ultimate purpose.

This world, they figured, was the problem. All of it gone to shit - hence the connotation of the term today.

(November 2, 2021 at 1:55 pm)Angrboda Wrote:

(November 2, 2021 at 1:53 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Skepticism is doubt, not disbelief.

edit: actually ancient Greek skepticism is disbelief, so that's not completely right.

I thought disbelief was the province of the Cynics?

Well, I'm not well versed in Cynicism. But I was thinking Pyrrho, who was said to be needed to be stopped from walking off a cliff by his followers. That's straight up disbelief that the cliff is there. Simple doubt would urge one to stop walking.

(November 1, 2021 at 6:05 pm)GaryAnderson Wrote: Hello. I’m new here. I’m a believer in God. In Jesus more specifically. 
In this topic I’d like to discuss some definitions and where this leads you as a person. 

Can you please describe what and where you are in a belief system? Or no belief system? Or lack of belief?

Once you’ve answered that, can you please answer the following: What can you tell me about souls and the existence of an afterlife?

Thank you.

I really don't like atheists using "ism" referring to the word "atheist". We don't have sects even though we are diverse and can have different views, but we are not a religion.

There is no such thing as a soul, we(the individual), what we call our personalities are merely our brains in motion. Once the brain dies, you die. 

How did life feel to you before you were born? That is exactly how life will feel to you after you die.

Antisthenes was the guy who commented on natural gods, considered the founder of cynicism.

Cicero, De Natura Deorum

(November 2, 2021 at 1:55 pm)Ahriman Wrote:

(November 2, 2021 at 1:51 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: You have that exactly backwards.

The term skepticism encompasses the disbelief in all supernatural claims.

Disbelief in: Gods, ESP, ghosts, Tarot card reading, spiritual surgery, etc, etc, all fall under the umbrella of skepticism.

The disbelief in gods is a special form of skepticism that gets it's own category and definition.

Why? That's stupid, and makes me think atheists just want to be part of some secret club.

It wasn't us atheists that came up with the term, it was ancient Romans.

In fact, Rome used the term 'atheist' to describe Christians, because they did not believe in the correct gods.

But you are correct, for a change, the term 'atheist' does not really need to exist. After all, there is no special term for the disbelief in Bigfoot.

That's only because bigfootists don't hold and abuse positions of power and authority and drill that shit into their poor kids with the imprimatur of civil society....try to write bigfoots laws and cast bigfoots vote. If there were, there would be, and we'd definitely need a term for thinking all of that was flaming hot garbage on the fundamental merits of it's own claims.

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(November 2, 2021 at 1:59 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:

(November 2, 2021 at 1:55 pm)Angrboda Wrote: I thought disbelief was the province of the Cynics?

Well, I'm not well versed in Cynicism. But I was thinking Pyrrho, who was said to be needed to be stopped from walking off a cliff by his followers. That's straight up disbelief that the cliff is there. Simple doubt would urge one to stop walking.

You know, in all of the times we've had occasion to chatter back and forth about philosophy, I realized something about myself, why my interests are so constrained.  The Big Ones...well, we all (I know, I know) already know what they thought, and even when we know they were wrong we toss participation trophies and accolades at them.  There were others, though, who barely get a mention or an also-ran in the contemporary mind because their opinions (then) were suppressed as a matter of political or cultural course who seem...for all the world...to have had much more relevant and accurate thoughts on any number of issues deemed important or illustrative today.

Literally taking the word of people who shit-talked those others and their positions because they did grievous harm to the ludicrous beliefs they intended to trade for worldly power. In the case of our new friend Gary, not even being able to imagine otherwise...because of that.

@GaryAnderson In my opinion it's looking like this thread to discover the forums atheist "sects" is probably not accomplishing what you intended. Maybe it's time to move on to a new subject.

(November 2, 2021 at 2:01 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(November 1, 2021 at 6:05 pm)GaryAnderson Wrote: Hello. I’m new here. I’m a believer in God. In Jesus more specifically. 
In this topic I’d like to discuss some definitions and where this leads you as a person. 

Can you please describe what and where you are in a belief system? Or no belief system? Or lack of belief?

Once you’ve answered that, can you please answer the following: What can you tell me about souls and the existence of an afterlife?

Thank you.

I really don't like atheists using "ism" referring to the word "atheist". We don't have sects even though we are diverse and can have different views, but we are not a religion.

Atheism and theism are conditions, like albinism or metabolism. Atheism is the state of not having a belief in the existence of a deity and theism is the condition of HAVING a belief in the existence of one or more deities.

(November 2, 2021 at 12:26 pm)Ahriman Wrote: The definition of "atheism" should be broadened to include a lack of belief in supernatural things period, not just gods. I mean, why stop at gods.

Atheism is a useful term for a specific type of non-belief.  It's rare that anyone inquires about my lack of belief in faeries, ghosts, or the efficacy of palm reading and Tarot cards.  In contrast, there seems to be someone asking "Why don't you believe in God?" All. The. Damn. Time.