Quote:o the OP: if segregating children by race during instruction about privilege is not teaching CRT; then, having school children recite the Lord's Prayer is not teaching Christianity, either. In other words, teaching concepts derived from a dogma, is basically teaching the dogma indirectly. Personally, I find all forms of race essensialism morally repugnant and find advocacy of CRT below contempt.

1. A ridiculous comparison  

2. That's NOT CRT !!!!

3. And CRT isn't any more dogma than saying the earth is round is dogma. Right Wingers simply hate that reality has a left-wing bias 

(January 18, 2022 at 9:19 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: To the OP: if segregating children by race during instruction about privilege is not teaching CRT; then, having school children recite the Lord's Prayer is not teaching Christianity, either. In other words, teaching concepts derived from a dogma, is basically teaching the dogma indirectly. Personally, I find all forms of race essensialism morally repugnant and find advocacy of CRT below contempt.

CRT is to be found in peer-reviewed academic journals. It is simply studies in the subject areas of economics, sociology, anthropology, etc. Do you think it is proper to teach the impacts on the indigenous North, Meso and Southern American populations from the impact of European colonizations in the 15th and 16th centuries, commonly known as the Columbian exchange?

It is vitally important that CRT be taught. Not necessarily to school-age children, but to Virginia state legislators.

Lincoln-Douglass Debate

Quote:The bill, introduced this week by freshman Delegate Wren Williams ®, appears to confuse Frederick Douglass with Sen. Stephen Douglas (D), who battled Lincoln for a seat in the Senate in 1858.It requires schools to provide students with an understanding of America's founding documents, including the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Federalist Papers.

It also says that Virginia students should also be able to demonstrate knowledge of Alexis de Tocqueville's "Democracy in America," the writings of the Founding Fathers, and "the first debate between Abraham Lincoln and Frederick Douglass."

The only problem is that Lincoln and Douglass never debated. Lincoln debated Sen. Stephen Douglas (D).

Boru

(January 18, 2022 at 6:49 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Believe it or not, I'm one of the leftists here that's most likely to call out the legit excesses of the left. It might not seem like it to IA, but that's mostly because I have a far higher standard of what constitutes real Political Correctness Gone Mad than he does. And as frustrating as the more jackasstic parts of the left can be, I know better than to ally myself with groups that are, if not full-blown Nazis, a link or two away from them. 


And, however much I dislike the excesses of identity politics or wokeness, their hopes for the world are almost certainly a Hell of a lot better than that.

I also identify as a more reasonable representative of Leftist policies, but you can't really have a conversation about that with anyone on the right anymore because they equate anything left of Ronald Reagan to Stalin.  I used to lean conservative, but slowly migrated to become more a centrist and the right just continued to move farther and farther right until I found myself solidly on the left.  The true politics of cancel culture and woke are complex and there is no written statement of what constitutes either.  Its a mob mentality and that's probably the most dangerous aspect of both.  Calling out people for doing evil things is good, hard stop.  Where the confusion comes in is how people define "evil things".

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(January 18, 2022 at 9:19 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: To the OP: if segregating children by race during instruction about privilege is not teaching CRT; then, having school children recite the Lord's Prayer is not teaching Christianity, either. In other words, teaching concepts derived from a dogma, is basically teaching the dogma indirectly. Personally, I find all forms of race essensialism morally repugnant and find advocacy of CRT below contempt.

Since you addressed this to the OP, I have to ask.  What are you talking about?  This isn't what my OP addresses.  Who is segregating children and then teaching them about privilege (white, I presume)?  Please explain in more detail.

(January 19, 2022 at 12:25 pm)Spongebob Wrote:

(January 18, 2022 at 6:49 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Believe it or not, I'm one of the leftists here that's most likely to call out the legit excesses of the left. It might not seem like it to IA, but that's mostly because I have a far higher standard of what constitutes real Political Correctness Gone Mad than he does. And as frustrating as the more jackasstic parts of the left can be, I know better than to ally myself with groups that are, if not full-blown Nazis, a link or two away from them. 


And, however much I dislike the excesses of identity politics or wokeness, their hopes for the world are almost certainly a Hell of a lot better than that.

I also identify as a more reasonable representative of Leftist policies, but you can't really have a conversation about that with anyone on the right anymore because they equate anything left of Ronald Reagan to Stalin.  I used to lean conservative, but slowly migrated to become more a centrist and the right just continued to move farther and farther right until I found myself solidly on the left.  The true politics of cancel culture and woke are complex and there is no written statement of what constitutes either.  Its a mob mentality and that's probably the most dangerous aspect of both.  Calling out people for doing evil things is good, hard stop.  Where the confusion comes in is how people define "evil things".

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(January 18, 2022 at 9:19 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: To the OP: if segregating children by race during instruction about privilege is not teaching CRT; then, having school children recite the Lord's Prayer is not teaching Christianity, either. In other words, teaching concepts derived from a dogma, is basically teaching the dogma indirectly. Personally, I find all forms of race essensialism morally repugnant and find advocacy of CRT below contempt.

Since you addressed this to the OP, I have to ask.  What are you talking about?  This isn't what my OP addresses.  Who is segregating children and then teaching them about privilege (white, I presume)?  Please explain in more detail.

This was all covered on Bill Maher's show with guest Megyn Kelly. 8 year olds were divided up into oppressed and oppressor. 8 year old white kids being called oppressors is pretty fucked and wrong. Toddlers being told to write letters to the Indians baseball team about why they should change their mascot? What kind of nonsense is that to make a toddler do? Can they even read yet?



https://www.newsweek.com/bill-maher-defe...ed-1646689

Now see, I understand that CRT is only taught in universities, and this seems to be the only response you hear from people on the left, is arguing over semantics. That's fine. CRT is not taught in elementary school or highshool. But what is being taught to children, is still pretty messed up, and obviously us whites are not going to be thrilled about our 8 year olds being called oppressors by their teachers. Teach history like you said you wanted to do. This goes beyond that. This is just making children feel bad for being white and beautiful.

If you teach the precepts of something, then you are teaching that thing, be it a legal theory or a religion. It is dishonest to suggest otherwise.

(January 20, 2022 at 10:47 am)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: This was all covered on Bill Maher's show with guest Megyn Kelly. 8 year olds were divided up into oppressed and oppressor. 8 year old white kids being called oppressors is pretty fucked and wrong. Toddlers being told to write letters to the Indians baseball team about why they should change their mascot? What kind of nonsense is that to make a toddler do? Can they even read yet?


Now see, I understand that CRT is only taught in universities, and this seems to be the only response you hear from people on the left, is arguing over semantics. That's fine. CRT is not taught in elementary school or highshool. But what is being taught to children, is still pretty messed up, and obviously us whites are not going to be thrilled about our 8 year olds being called oppressors by their teachers. Teach history like you said you wanted to do. This goes beyond that. This is just making children feel bad for being white and beautiful.

Just how many schools or classrooms does this really represent?  One school tries it and it is criticized and subsequently cancelled.  I'm fine with that.  There was one case in Mississippi last year where a teacher threatened a kid with suspension if he didn't stop wearing a star of David necklace.  That was a clear case of an educator who is also an idiot.  It was called out and he no longer works as an educator.  Doesn't mean there's a wave of such behavior.  I had an English teacher in high school who read us a daily religious devotional.  She was the only one all my years of schooling to do such a thing.  It was clearly illegal, but also clearly not a movement.  Stop arguing that one-offs are something more than they are.

(January 20, 2022 at 11:10 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: If you teach the precepts of something, then you are teaching that thing, be it a legal theory or a religion. It is dishonest to suggest otherwise.

I understand the argument you're making here, and I'm not going to claim to understand CRT well at all, so you could be right, but when you get bogged down in semantics, then the argument with the other side might just remain about whether it actually should be called CRT or not, and that argument will go on and on for pages without anything being resolved. I personally don't care whether we call it CRT or not and don't think that point is necessarily all that important to win, so I've conceded on that point from the start, because I don't see why it really matters whether we call it CRT or not. I choose to focus more on the details, where like you pointed out, kids are being separated based on their race and the pale kids are being branded oppressors, which I think is a point we'll have a better job winning the other side over with, rather than getting bogged down in a ten page argument over "CRT is being taught to kids". "No it's not, this whole issue was just dreamt up by the Republicans and there's nothing to see here." And on and on. If we give them concrete examples of young children being taught inappropriate things, then we might actually win a few people over who haven't been paying attention to what is being taught in schools, and somehow think that this is a big nothing burger all manufactured by republicans, which is a nonsensical take they gobbled up from CNN and believed without actually looking into the truth of the matter.

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(January 20, 2022 at 11:17 am)Spongebob Wrote:

(January 20, 2022 at 10:47 am)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: This was all covered on Bill Maher's show with guest Megyn Kelly. 8 year olds were divided up into oppressed and oppressor. 8 year old white kids being called oppressors is pretty fucked and wrong. Toddlers being told to write letters to the Indians baseball team about why they should change their mascot? What kind of nonsense is that to make a toddler do? Can they even read yet?


Now see, I understand that CRT is only taught in universities, and this seems to be the only response you hear from people on the left, is arguing over semantics. That's fine. CRT is not taught in elementary school or highshool. But what is being taught to children, is still pretty messed up, and obviously us whites are not going to be thrilled about our 8 year olds being called oppressors by their teachers. Teach history like you said you wanted to do. This goes beyond that. This is just making children feel bad for being white and beautiful.

Just how many schools or classrooms does this really represent?  One school tries it and it is criticized and subsequently cancelled.  I'm fine with that.  There was one case in Mississippi last year where a teacher threatened a kid with suspension if he didn't stop wearing a star of David necklace.  That was a clear case of an educator who is also an idiot.  It was called out and he no longer works as an educator.  Doesn't mean there's a wave of such behavior.  I had an English teacher in high school who read us a daily religious devotional.  She was the only one all my years of schooling to do such a thing.  It was clearly illegal, but also clearly not a movement.  Stop arguing that one-offs are something more than they are.

Just because you haven't been paying attention to the news the past few years, doesn't mean these are one offs. This is happening all over the place. Like Kamala Harris said  in a recent interview, "do Google". Do some research. Pay attention to the goings on of the world and your country. If you'd rather not, then go ahead believing the line CNN feeds you about this all being made up by some Republican politicians so they could win an election. Stay in the dark and uninformed if you wish.

(January 20, 2022 at 11:28 am)Irreligious Atheist Wrote:

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Just because you haven't been paying attention to the news the past few years, doesn't mean these are one offs. This is happening all over the place. Like Kamala Harris said  in a recent interview, "do Google". Do some research. Pay attention to the goings on of the world and your country. If you'd rather not, then go ahead believing the line CNN feeds you about this all being made up by some Republican politicians so they could win an election. Stay in the dark and uninformed if you wish.

You assume too much.  I never said I "wasn't paying attention".  I said I didn't watch TV news.  There's a huge difference, numb nuts.  And why would you assume I'm watching CNN if you just asserted that I don't watch TV news?!  Dumbass!

If this is "happening all over the place" then why isn't it happening in my town or any town near me?  Or any state near me?  I would have known.  What is happening is that the extreme right nutjobs are interpreting any inclusion of history or any sort of racial diversity as CRT.  It's NOT CRT.  They can claim whatever they want and that's just what they are doing and you are drinking their kool aid, plain and simple.

Example:  

Teacher:  Please write a one page theme on what MLK day means to you and your family.  

Racist righties - They're teaching CRT!!!!!

@Irreligious Atheist
My bottom line question here is what is the big deal?  Why are you so hot and bothered by this subject?  What does it mean to you?  Do you have children?  Are you a child?

Wasn't cnn.  It was a reich wing activist, Chris Rufo.  I'll just quote the man himself...again...



"I am quite intentionally redefining what 'critical race theory' means in the public mind, expanding it as a catchall for the new racial orthodoxy. People won't read , but when their kid is labled an 'oppressor' in first grade, that's now CRT."


"The goal is to have the public read something crazy in the newspaper and immediately think ‘critical race theory.'""

There's your truth of the matter.   It's a wedge. Maybe you should take a look into it? I think the guy is a clown but you can't deny the efficacy of his work product.