As I age, I catch myself in states of hurry that I don't recall experiencing when I was younger. Or perhaps when I moved faster in my younger days, the enjoyment of speed was less about time running out. How we perceive time is weird.

(August 11, 2022 at 9:10 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I’ve always wondered about obsessions with time in the subject of capital punishment.  If they’re sentenced to die, does it matter if it takes years and years to properly carry that sentence out?

I'd think so.  Technically, if you pulled a plug on a 95 year-old nazi war criminal who's dying of terminal cancer without his consent, that's an execution.  Nobody's going to be satisfied by the justice of that, though.

The idea that someone has deprived others of the best years of their lives, but should live out his remaining days under the care and supervision of a prison, with all the many rights and privileges that entails, seems unjust, no? What if your wife or children were slaughtered by an axe murderer because of the color of their skin-- would you not rather see him drawn and quartered than let them live out their days relatively happily, watching TV re-runs and eating food that you pay for?

There's a lot of talk about not wanting to live in a savage society. But savagery and downright evil are important parts of the human experience and instinct, and there's no reason they can't have their place, too.

Here's a fair punishment for the rape and slaughter of a child-- 1 hour in a room with the father, no questions asked.

(August 11, 2022 at 11:54 pm)bennyboy Wrote: But savagery and downright evil are important parts of the human experience and instinct, and there's no reason they can't have their place, too.

Precisely.

(August 11, 2022 at 11:54 pm)bennyboy Wrote: The idea that someone has deprived others of the best years of their lives, but should live out his remaining days under the care and supervision of a prison, with all the many rights and privileges that entails, seems unjust, no?

Not to me, but..then again, we might just come from different moral communities you and I.  The "care and supervision of a prison" seems to be doing alot of work in your mind, from where I sit. You one of those guys who thinks that prisons are just too good, in addition to how we're not killin em fast enough?

Quote: What if your wife or children were slaughtered by an axe murderer because of the color of their skin-- would you not rather see him drawn and quartered than let them live out their days relatively happily, watching TV re-runs and eating food that you pay for?

There are alot of things I might enjoy seeing that aren't included in the set of admissible things.  You're looking.... again.... for some explicitly subjective warrant to do x.  That "justice" is the set of things I want to see or would satisfy me.  Different moral -and- legal communities...you and I....

Quote:There's a lot of talk about not wanting to live in a savage society.  But savagery and downright evil are important parts of the human experience and instinct, and there's no reason they can't have their place, too.

What is is not necessarily what ought to be.  Beyond that simple reminder..yes, there's plenty of reasons those things may have no place. As far as the social contract goes, just count up the people in any moral or legal community that rejects those things..and realize that's all the reason required in a social contract.

Quote:Here's a fair punishment for the rape and slaughter of a child-- 1 hour in a room with the father, no questions asked.

That's neither fair nor just nor moral - for either party - or a society which engages in it.  It abuses the offender while simultaneously handicapping the father in a routinely compromising situation that, taken together, victimizes the society itself.  

Different....communities.

What is is what's natural. What is natural can be no other way except via selfish conversion means.

Quote:I'd think so.  Technically, if you pulled a plug on a 95 year-old nazi war criminal who's dying of terminal cancer without his consent, that's an execution.  Nobody's going to be satisfied by the justice of that, though.

That's simply a bad thing to do

Quote:The idea that someone has deprived others of the best years of their lives, but should live out his remaining days under the care and supervision of a prison, with all the many rights and privileges that entails, seems unjust, no? What if your wife or children were slaughtered by an axe murderer because of the color of their skin-- would you not rather see him drawn and quartered than let them live out their days relatively happily, watching TV re-runs and eating food that you pay for?

Nope it's perfectly just and what civilized society would do

Quote:There's a lot of talk about not wanting to live in a savage society. But savagery and downright evil are important parts of the human experience and instinct, and there's no reason they can't have their place, too.

Yes, there is they are our worst nature, and their no reason to indulge in it.

Quote:Here's a fair punishment for the rape and slaughter of a child-- 1 hour in a room with the father, no questions asked.

How about no?

As someone who has doubts about the existence of free will, I am not prepared to kill anyone, except, perhaps, in self-defense, and even then, with only great reluctance.

(August 3, 2022 at 8:13 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: As an atheist, I necessarily oppose infinite punishments for finite transgressions. Nazi war crimes, as horrific as they were, were finite.

Executing a nazi war criminal is a finite punishment, so what's the problem?

(August 3, 2022 at 8:13 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Additionally, capital punishment does nothing to solve Nazism (Nazis are thriving even now). It’s not justice, it’s revenge.

It does. By taking away a charismatic leader like Hitler or other members of nazi leadership, Nazism will fall apart more quickly.

Quote:Executing a nazi war criminal is a finite punishment, so what's the problem?

Finite or infinite it's wrong either way 

Quote:It does. By taking away a charismatic leader like Hitler or other members of nazi leadership, Nazism will fall apart more quickly.

Lol if you think the Nazi party needed Hilter to survive then you are nuts. Someone else would have simply taken his place.


The Death penalty is an effective and stupid means of punishment. Embraced by barbarians and no one else.

(August 12, 2022 at 5:42 pm)Helios Wrote: Finite or infinite it's wrong either way 

Why? I mean, to paraphrase Hawking, we are : "just a chemical scum on a moderate-sized planet". What's wrong with getting rid of chemical scum ?

(August 12, 2022 at 5:42 pm)Helios Wrote: Lol if you think the Nazi party needed Hilter to survive then you are nuts. Someone else would have simply taken his place.

Hitler's charisma was an important factor for the success of the Nazi party, this is a basic fact of history.