Some jobs require degrees, with or without licensure, while other jobs require certifications; but all jobs, with few exceptions (even entry-level jobs), require experience. Once you've checked the necessary boxes, no one cares about your grades. As a practicing engineer, I would say that my success is one-third my productivity, one-third maintaining amiable & professional relationships with my coworkers and one-third having a sponsor in upper management who is there to protect my job, as long as I fulfill #1 & #2. Not having #3 can, in some instances, be even worse than not fulfilling #1 and #2.

(October 18, 2022 at 2:44 am)Gentle_Idiot Wrote: For you, if you can summarize your thoughts, what do you think it takes for a person to go from rags to riches?

Since you're asking as a philosopher rather than an economist, I'm going to take "rags to riches" metaphorically. As "living poorly" to "living richly." 

This would have something to do with being open-minded and accepting of difference as you get older, more full of love and curiosity. Learning the valuable qualities of people different from yourself and societies different from your own. Being someone who defends others and makes other people feel better, rather than being a scold and an accuser.

Learning to appreciate and value beauty, and other good qualities that are good for themselves, not just utilitarian. 

Basically someone who is positive and full of love is someone who is successful.

Since it's natural (and to some extent necessary) to be more self-centered when we're young, this is all gained from experience and self-training.

(October 18, 2022 at 7:12 am)Belacqua Wrote:

(October 18, 2022 at 2:44 am)Gentle_Idiot Wrote: For you, if you can summarize your thoughts, what do you think it takes for a person to go from rags to riches?

Since you're asking as a philosopher rather than an economist, I'm going to take "rags to riches" metaphorically. As "living poorly" to "living richly." 

This would have something to do with being open-minded and accepting of difference as you get older, more full of love and curiosity. Learning the valuable qualities of people different from yourself and societies different from your own. Being someone who defends others and makes other people feel better, rather than being a scold and an accuser.

Learning to appreciate and value beauty, and other good qualities that are good for themselves, not just utilitarian. 

Basically someone who is positive and full of love is someone who is successful.

Since it's natural (and to some extent necessary) to be more self-centered when we're young, this is all gained from experience and self-training.

(Bold mine)

The evidence does not bear this out.

Boru

(October 18, 2022 at 7:17 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(October 18, 2022 at 7:12 am)Belacqua Wrote: Since you're asking as a philosopher rather than an economist, I'm going to take "rags to riches" metaphorically. As "living poorly" to "living richly." 

This would have something to do with being open-minded and accepting of difference as you get older, more full of love and curiosity. Learning the valuable qualities of people different from yourself and societies different from your own. Being someone who defends others and makes other people feel better, rather than being a scold and an accuser.

Learning to appreciate and value beauty, and other good qualities that are good for themselves, not just utilitarian. 

Basically someone who is positive and full of love is someone who is successful.

Since it's natural (and to some extent necessary) to be more self-centered when we're young, this is all gained from experience and self-training.

(Bold mine)

The evidence does not bear this out.

Boru

According to my definition, people like this are successful people. Someone who is negative and full of hate is, in my view, unsuccessful, regardless of income or status.

(October 18, 2022 at 7:34 am)Belacqua Wrote:

(October 18, 2022 at 7:17 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (Bold mine)

The evidence does not bear this out.

Boru

According to my definition, people like this are successful people. Someone who is negative and full of hate is, in my view, unsuccessful, regardless of income or status.

There is no correlation between positivity/negativity and how successful someone is. My mom is a very hateful person, and she runs her own successful business. On the other hand, I am a very loving person, and I have nothing.

(October 18, 2022 at 8:30 am)Ahriman Wrote:

(October 18, 2022 at 7:34 am)Belacqua Wrote: According to my definition, people like this are successful people. Someone who is negative and full of hate is, in my view, unsuccessful, regardless of income or status.

There is no correlation between positivity/negativity and how successful someone is. My mom is a very hateful person, and she runs her own successful business. On the other hand, I am a very loving person, and I have nothing.

Why does everyone here associate success with material possessions? With income? 

That seems like a very narrow view of life to me.

Is "success" judged internally or externally, or, both?

Success is measured subjectively by what you personally believe your best achievement in life is. A mother may perceive raising her children as her singular success while the next door neighbor who is a banker may perceive his job and bank account as his success.

Personally, I don't place any importance on success in relation to my life.

(October 18, 2022 at 8:46 am)Jehanne Wrote: Is "success" judged internally or externally, or, both?

To me the internal sense of a person is crucial to judging success.

If the external measurements are money, fame, being top in one's profession, etc., but one can have these things and still be miserable, then I don't think they can equate with success. 

I'm not taking about a happy mood -- like always being in a Coca Cola commercial. It's more like satisfaction, not being wracked by desire or obsession. The ability to "be here now," at home with what you are.

Nobody reads Walden anymore, I guess.