It's a sad fact of life the some folk only learn by negative reinforcement. It's also a sad fact of life the some folk are simply predators.
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Current time: December 26, 2024, 7:13 pm
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Karma's a ***!
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RE: Karma's a ***!
August 4, 2023 at 5:21 pm
(This post was last modified: August 4, 2023 at 5:22 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I just had a similar convo on pagan forums in the last few days. I find myself in the pitiable position of agreeing with Bel. Karma is a way for people who could not personally do bad things to feel comfortable in the thought that bad things will happen to people they would not do bad things to, even when they thought those people deserved it.It's an outgrowth of our complicated and not entirely rational view on how the world should be, with full knowledge that this is not how the world actually is.
Bad people get away with it. No good deed goes unpunished. -Enter karma, to mollify our dissatisfaction with these facts.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
I'd love to believe that people who do bad things are eventually made to pay for those bad things. I would also love to believe that good people have only good things happen to them. I am old enough to know that neither of these things happen on the regular.
I've always been interested in Buddhism, but there are definitely two different ways of looking at karma. There's the superstitious, religious version, where it's thought some sort of supernatural balancing justice, perhaps even over different reincarnated lifetimes. I don't really know... I'm not interested in that type of Buddhism at all. I'm interested in the supposed original form of it, before it was tainted by religion, and in that case the understanding of karma just means cause and effect, nothing supernatural about it... you reap what you sow through cause and effect, and nothing else. If you're interested, I'd recommend the book 'What the Buddha Taught' by Walpola Rahula, for a look at the (alleged) origins of Buddhism, stripped of all the modern religious dogma that usually accompanies it.
RE: Karma's a ***!
August 4, 2023 at 7:00 pm
(This post was last modified: August 4, 2023 at 7:01 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
The trouble is that the "original form" is the superstitious and unserious version. More careful people, like you, came along after the fact and corrected it. Not that the forces of traditionalism appreciated, or even could appreciate....your effort.....
You did what the buddha said to do, and killed him when you met him on the road, and buddhists will detest you for it.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
RE: Karma's a ***!
August 4, 2023 at 7:16 pm
(This post was last modified: August 4, 2023 at 7:17 pm by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
For me, karmic retribution - especially as it relates to rebirth/reincarnation - is one of the most vile concepts in religion, ranking right up there with substitutive sacrifice: Joe lives a shitty life, so reincarnated baby ‘Joe’ is punished for Joe-prime’s misdeeds. Not to mention how this nonsense was used for centuries to justify the caste system.
Fuck that. Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
RE: Karma's a ***!
August 4, 2023 at 7:20 pm
(This post was last modified: August 4, 2023 at 7:35 pm by emjay.)
(August 4, 2023 at 7:00 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: The trouble is that the "original form" is the superstitious and unserious version. More careful people, like you, came along after the fact and corrected it. Not that the forces of traditionalism appreciated, or even could appreciate....your effort..... I knew you'd come along and shit on my parade... that's why I stuck an 'alleged' in there I don't know if it's accurate or not, but I like that book, and for the most part, I think the logic in it speaks for itself... well the logic pertaining to this life anyway; I have no interest in its speculations about after death... so I'm only interested in it as a philosophy for this life. ETA: But yeah, I see what you're saying; I personally feel that the Buddha would be rolling in his grave thinking about the way the religion developed and the way he is venerated in modern times, but that could just be the 'retconned' version of which you speak, talking. RE: Karma's a ***!
August 4, 2023 at 7:27 pm
(This post was last modified: August 4, 2023 at 7:29 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
It's one of the great personal disappointments of how I view the world that the people I want to build up interpret that as shitting on their parade. It's entirely my own fault, ofc...but....All I'm saying..is that you have more considered and accurate thoughts than any stupid fucking buddha. You haven't divined the hidden meaning of a great ancient message, you're the author.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(August 4, 2023 at 7:27 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It's one of the great personal disappointments of how I view the world that the people I want to build up interpret that as shitting on their parade. It's entirely my own fault, ofc...but....All I'm saying..is that you have more considered and accurate thoughts than any stupid fucking buddha. You haven't divined the hidden meaning of a great ancient message, you're the author. I accept that you may well be right... that he was a product of his time, and that time was a superstitious time, so to assume that he could go that much against the grain with his philosophy is perhaps naive. But however it came about, retconned or no, I do appreciate it in the form laid out in that book.
I understand the OP is talking about the common non-technical view of karma, as cosmic retribution.
Still, it makes sense to look at more thought-out versions of the term before we condemn it entirely. This is from the Stanford Encyclopedia entry on Jaina philosophy: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/jaina-philosophy/ |
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