(August 18, 2023 at 6:04 pm)LinuxGal Wrote:

(August 18, 2023 at 5:49 pm)Barry Wrote: So what’s your explanation for the creation of the world?

I refuse to accept your premise that there was a "creation" of the world.

There are strict conservation laws, which point to something existing across the entire domain of time.

Hi LG
God exists outside of time. Either God created the world, or it randomly existed from nothing, or it always existed from nothing from infinity. If the latter it’s impossible to reach the present from infinity. So the only explanation is an external creator, and that’s what we call God. 
God is hard to understand, but God is the only answer.
Cheers Barry

(August 18, 2023 at 6:19 pm)Barry Wrote:

(August 18, 2023 at 6:04 pm)LinuxGal Wrote: I refuse to accept your premise that there was a "creation" of the world.

There are strict conservation laws, which point to something existing across the entire domain of time.

Hi LG
God exists outside of time. Either God created the world, or it randomly existed from nothing, or it always existed from nothing from infinity. If the latter it’s impossible to reach the present from infinity. So the only explanation is an external creator, and that’s what we call God. 
God is hard to understand, but God is the only answer.
Cheers Barry

If God exists outside of time, God cannot create anything, including the universe.

Boru

(August 18, 2023 at 6:19 pm)Barry Wrote:

(August 18, 2023 at 6:04 pm)LinuxGal Wrote: I refuse to accept your premise that there was a "creation" of the world.

There are strict conservation laws, which point to something existing across the entire domain of time.

Hi LG
God exists outside of time. Either God created the world, or it randomly existed from nothing, or it always existed from nothing from infinity. If the latter it’s impossible to reach the present from infinity. So the only explanation is an external creator, and that’s what we call God. 
God is hard to understand, but God is the only answer.
Cheers Barry

Was “outside of time” the very first thing it invented?

If not, was it jesus and ghost?

(August 18, 2023 at 6:19 pm)Barry Wrote: God exists outside of time. Either God created the world, or it randomly existed from nothing, or it always existed from nothing from infinity. If the latter it’s impossible to reach the present from infinity. So the only explanation is an external creator, and that’s what we call God.

You keep insisting the world "existed from nothing" without demonstrating that initial condition was true.  At a minimum, the violation of energy conservation going from nothing to something requires an explanation.

(August 18, 2023 at 6:17 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(August 18, 2023 at 5:15 pm)Barry Wrote: Hi,
I’ve just joined this forum. 
I see a lot of discussion about religion and Jesus and being saved.  I think that in a forum for atheists the most important question is “Does God exist?”. Jesus Christ is irrelevant if he isn’t the Son of God. And all other religious faiths are meaningless if our world occurred by accident with no creator God. 
So how did the world begin? 
My answer is that science proves nothing can be created from nothing in our material world, so the only explanation is that something external created the world. And that is what we call God. The problem for humankind is that they don’t want to feel responsible to God, despite knowing in their hearts God exists. 
Cheers Barry

Welcome to the forum, Barry.

Science doesn’t prove that ‘nothing can be created from nothing’, just the opposite - virtual particle pop into existence with comforting regularity. Additionally, there are several cosmological theories that posit the universe coming from nothing. You might try reading about scientists have to say on the subject.

‘God created the universe’ isn’t an explanation, it’s merely as assertion. If you think God created the universe, that’s fine, but you should frame it as an explanation before demanding that of others.

Good luck (you’ll need it).

Boru

Hi Boru
Thanks for the welcome. I don’t need “luck. I’m just having a friendly chat. And I am not demanding anyone believe anything. As a Catholic I don’t assert that you have to believe or be “born again” “to be saved”. I’ve had Protestants demand that of me.
Cosmological theories are not evidence. Nor popping virtual particles. Who makes them? 
There are only two possibilities. God created the world. Or it just happened. Both have issues. But God has meaning, and hope. I just happen to believe 100% in God. Nobody else has to.
Cheers Barry

(August 18, 2023 at 6:25 pm)LinuxGal Wrote:

(August 18, 2023 at 6:19 pm)Barry Wrote: God exists outside of time. Either God created the world, or it randomly existed from nothing, or it always existed from nothing from infinity. If the latter it’s impossible to reach the present from infinity. So the only explanation is an external creator, and that’s what we call God.

You keep insisting the world "existed from nothing" without demonstrating that initial condition was true.  At a minimum, the violation of energy conservation going from nothing to something requires an explanation.

God is the explanation. Let’s agree to disagree.  Cheers Barry

(August 18, 2023 at 6:22 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(August 18, 2023 at 6:19 pm)Barry Wrote: Hi LG
God exists outside of time. Either God created the world, or it randomly existed from nothing, or it always existed from nothing from infinity. If the latter it’s impossible to reach the present from infinity. So the only explanation is an external creator, and that’s what we call God. 
God is hard to understand, but God is the only answer.
Cheers Barry

If God exists outside of time, God cannot create anything, including the universe.

Boru

Hi Boru
God can do anything, by definition. 
Cheers Barry

(August 18, 2023 at 5:15 pm)Barry Wrote: Hi,
I’ve just joined this forum. 
I see a lot of discussion about religion and Jesus and being saved.  I think that in a forum for atheists the most important question is “Does God exist?”. Jesus Christ is irrelevant if he isn’t the Son of God. And all other religious faiths are meaningless if our world occurred by accident with no creator God. 
So how did the world begin? 
My answer is that science proves nothing can be created from nothing in our material world, so the only explanation is that something external created the world. And that is what we call God. The problem for humankind is that they don’t want to feel responsible to God, despite knowing in their hearts God exists. 
Cheers Barry

1. In Jewish culture being a "son of God', simply meant to a Jew, they were "righteous" References upon request. Jesus was a Jew. 
2. You have no evidence a god exists. 
3. How our world "began" is still in question, if indeed it did "begin". Roger Penrose thinks there were infinite bangs and re-bangs. He's a lot smarter than you are. 
4. Just because you are so ignorant and uneducated that you can imagine nothing else other than a god, doesn't mean everyone is that stupid. 
5. You don't know that anyone "believes" anything, including "god exists" Projecting your beliefs onto others is a common delusion. 
6. Your assertion that science proves nothing comes from nothing is false. When you grow up, you will learn about Quantum Mechanics, (virtual particles come from nothing), many atoms are created from atomic decay, which are caused by nothing, etc etc. It's unfortunate you're so uneducated. 

We all get you are questioning our faith. It's OK. You'll be a good atheist. 

Ho hum. 
Yet another Christard to begin to educate.
Gods can't *do* anything. Doing requires time. God is timeless. Ok well. Lesson one.
Don't Catholics have to study Theology and Philosophy ?

(August 18, 2023 at 6:55 pm)Barry Wrote:

(August 18, 2023 at 6:22 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: If God exists outside of time, God cannot create anything, including the universe.

Boru

Hi Boru
God can do anything, by definition. 
Cheers Barry

Can God kill himself?

Boru

(August 18, 2023 at 6:51 pm)Barry Wrote:

(August 18, 2023 at 6:17 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Welcome to the forum, Barry.

Science doesn’t prove that ‘nothing can be created from nothing’, just the opposite - virtual particle pop into existence with comforting regularity. Additionally, there are several cosmological theories that posit the universe coming from nothing. You might try reading about scientists have to say on the subject.

‘God created the universe’ isn’t an explanation, it’s merely as assertion. If you think God created the universe, that’s fine, but you should frame it as an explanation before demanding that of others.

Good luck (you’ll need it).

Boru

Hi Boru
Thanks for the welcome. I don’t need “luck. I’m just having a friendly chat. And I am not demanding anyone believe anything. As a Catholic I don’t assert that you have to believe or be “born again” “to be saved”. I’ve had Protestants demand that of me.
Cosmological theories are not evidence. Nor popping virtual particles. Who makes them? 
There are only two possibilities. God created the world. Or it just happened. Both have issues. But God has meaning, and hope. I just happen to believe 100% in God. Nobody else has to.
Cheers Barry

There are only two possibilities if one is very uneducted and not very creative. 
These kinds of anal-retentive mentalities "there are only my two" reveal the personality types that spout this shit.