(August 29, 2023 at 12:40 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: But orthodox Jews do try and advocate for positions on gay marriage, abortion, religious schooling, and Israel.

And maybe in places like France to be allowed to wear the kippur in state schools.  

And they would be against any move to classify circumcision as genital mutilation.  Or the banning of kosher meat under animal rights regulation.

Their religious values influence their voting and advocacy.  And look at the power Judiasm has in Israeli politics (and therefore international politics).

It would be better if no ones political opinions was swayed by religion at all.

They advocate for those things for Judaism. No Jew of my acquaintance (and I’m acquainted with a LOT of them) has ever told that laws need to be passed to force non-Jews to adhere to Jewish tenets and customs.

Boru

(August 29, 2023 at 12:48 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: That's why we have things like hatespeech laws, restrictions on what can be taught in state schools, restrictions on advertising, restrictions on political.parties advocating for terror, and so on.  We protect democracy and separate church and state for the greater good.

It should be noted that those restrictions can and are also used to undermine democracy (Florida's education laws, for example).

If circumscion was put to a referendum, wouldn't they vote according to their religious convictions?

When they vote for party or president, are they not influenced by the candidates stance on Isreal, or religious education, etc?

I am not convinced that religion plays no part in religious people's political opinions and actions.

(August 29, 2023 at 12:57 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(August 29, 2023 at 12:48 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: That's why we have things like hatespeech laws, restrictions on what can be taught in state schools, restrictions on advertising, restrictions on political.parties advocating for terror, and so on.  We protect democracy and separate church and state for the greater good.

It should be noted that those restrictions can and are also used to undermine democracy (Florida's education laws, for example).

That's why they need to be carefully formulated and not hijacked by religious people. Ideally, religion should be weeded out of society altogether. A long, slow process, no doubt.

(August 29, 2023 at 12:59 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: If circumscion was put to a referendum, wouldn't they vote according to their religious convictions?

When they vote for party or president, are they not influenced by the candidates stance on Isreal, or religious education, etc?

I am not convinced that religion plays no part in religious people's political opinions and actions.

Of course they would.

Why is it that you have no problem voting according to your WV, but you have a problem if other people do so?

Boru

I have found that there has never been anyone running for office that I agree with 100%. I tend to go with the lesser of two evils and have for years.

Because I obviously believe my WV good and theirs bad.

I'm happy to allow disagreement within a certain bounds, but some things seem evidentially bad for human flourishing. Religious views being one of those things.

Same as I don't want murder legal, or think its OK for Mohammed to have a child bride, or for gays to be criminalised, or another holocaust etc etc.

I've been a Republican, a Libertarian, and now a Democrat (as of 2016). As far as I can tell my atheism was not a factor. I was an agnostic theist when I was a Repbulican and when I became a Libertarian; I became an atheist while I was a Libertarian. I feel like my political evolution was due to education more than anything else. I don't believe in spirits or eternal souls, so I'm not worried about embryos or fetuses having souls; but that's about it. I might be pro-choice even if I did think fetuses have souls.

(August 29, 2023 at 12:14 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(August 29, 2023 at 11:50 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: Aren't they always?

No. Jews don’t try to legislate against the consumption of shellfish and Hindus aren’t clamoring to force other people to make sacrifices to Kali.

Boru

I think your scope is too narrow.

Sure, Jews aren't looking to enforce a specific Bible verse by law - but Hasidic Jews in Brooklyn lobby the NYC City Council and NY state legislature to allow them to set lower educational standards for subjects outside of religious teachings. Jews won't compel the entire world not to answer the phone on the Sabbath - but the Jewish state of Israel regularly discriminates against and violates human rights of the minority Arab Muslim population in Israel and in what is considered Palestine.

Hindus aren't forcing anyone to make a sacrifice (?) - but Hindu nationalists in India, given political and social clout by Modi, are literally propagating violence against the minority Muslim population to the point that the Genocide Watch Group is sounding the alarm on violence against Muslims in India.

My WV includes being an atheist, but that is not my entire WV.