(September 5, 2023 at 2:08 pm)Angrboda Wrote: You've obviously given this a lot of thought.

Some. But mostly I just typed what I'd learnt from spending time on the internet listening. Took about 5 mins.

(September 5, 2023 at 3:08 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: I'm gonna have to get a laminated cheat sheet to carry with me.

I wouldn't bother.

However, it does seem useful for society to discriminate between 'bad' incels and 'ok' incels.

Good (or okay) incels seldom make the news.

An incel is just one letter away from being a computer chip.

(September 5, 2023 at 4:43 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Good (or okay) incels seldom make the news.

True. The violent hateful mentally ill ones do.

Redundant. All incels are hateful, violent, or mentally ill. That's what the term specifically refers to. Not unlucky schmucks who have trouble getting laid - incels.

What is word?

(September 5, 2023 at 4:34 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote:

(September 5, 2023 at 2:08 pm)Angrboda Wrote: You've obviously given this a lot of thought.

Some. But mostly I just typed what I'd learnt from spending time on the internet listening.  Took about 5 mins.

If people on Reddit or wherever are having these discussions, that seems like a positive thing to me. 

Like imagine a frustrated college freshman Googling "black pill." I would hope that he finds sites explaining that such people are bitter and blame others for their own issues, rather than some tribe that encourages him to blame women. 

That's the opposite of muddying the waters and justifying. That's putting the truth out there in the hope that some at-risk boys will recognize the dangers.

Black pill tends to focus inward - your loneliness is caused because you are ugly and/or neurodiverse. You have bad genes. Fix what you can,but there's a good chance it's unfixable.

Red pill tends to focus more outward - your loneliness is because you're low status and women are hypergamous. Women want highvalue men, so become high value.

A lot of black pillers see red pillers as geifters, selling a solution that doesn't work. No amount of wealth or 'game' or fake confidence etc is going to make up for bad genetics.

A lot of red pillers see black pillers as ignorant, cowardly and undisciplined, choosing to wallow in their own issues rather than fix them by gaining wealth and learning game by 'approaching' hundreds of women and ignoring the 99% rejection for the chance of one success.

One thing that seems common to all internet 'tribes' and discussions is hyperbole, and the fact that trolls are mixed in with the sincere posters. For every measured and sincere comment you will get ten that are exaggerated, trollis, abusive or inflammatory.

Of course, none of this talk about terminology really addresses the underlying issues.

At bottom, there's a surprisingly large number of people, mostly men, who are lonely and suffering, many of whom are unattractive and neurodiverse, who aren't getting anything but insult and shame from society and so turn instead to the net where they are mostly hearing radicalising and sexist messages. This isn't good for anyone.

Seems like you might have gotten the order reversed. Incels don't get shit from society and then run into incel shit to be radicalized. They get shit from society for repeating the radicalizing incel shit they've already run into. They're disseminators.

(September 5, 2023 at 9:55 am)Belacqua Wrote: \FF is certainly not an apologist trying to muddy the waters. 

In the post you replied to, he is pointing out that not all lonely people blame others for their loneliness. In other words, many lonely people are not incels.

(September 5, 2023 at 12:23 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: Because the term incel has become so ubiquitous in modern culture, especially on the net, I've met many self declared incels who had no such grievance.

It has simply become a weaponised and pejorative term for any lonely depressed person, and self-deprecating people use it of themselves.

Again, I suggest we decide upon a number of terms we can use more fairly.  I will offer some in a future post.

@Belacqua -- This makes my point.