(September 16, 2023 at 6:20 am)h4ym4n Wrote: Data’s a coward and has to tap dance around the truth that his/her god created demons and satan/lucifer/devil exactly as they are.

Why dose your god have to create hateful monsters to fuck up humans Data?


WTF is the othe crap you typed out?

Please don't be moronic, that takes the fun out of this for me.

The Hebrew word satan means adversary, resistor. Do you understand what that means? If God had created Satan the Devil (devil means slanderer, liar) as he was then those descriptive titles wouldn't have been given to him because he wouldn't have been those things. Anecdotally I think that the names given us for spirit beings aren't the names they use for themselves, that is especially true of Satan. He wasn't given that name upon his creation, but only after his sin.

Lucifer is a Latin word that means light bearer. Think lightning bug, glow worm, luciferase. The Hebrew word is הֵילֵל, hêlēl, which means shining one. The Greek Εωσφόρος Eosfóros, ho he‧o‧spho′ros, “the bringer of dawn (morn). Isaiah 14:12. It doesn't apply to Satan in this instance. Here it is referring to the Babylonian dynasty which at the time was represented by Nebuchadnezzar. So, it's talking about him and Babylon. Go back to verse 1 and read it through. The term is, if you can see by following the link above and comparing translations, a metaphor. Morning star, daystar, bringer of dawn. These terms are used in the Bible for Jesus, Satan and Nebuchadnezzar. It means a marker for change. The daystar or morning star is the last star on the horizon to appear before the dawn.

In a literary sense Satan, Nebuchadnezzar and Jesus signified change. Satan brought sin, Nebuchadnezzar brought down the rebellious Israelites who represented Jehovah's earthly kingdom and Jesus brought salvation.

Now, if God created hateful demons either knowing or with the intention of them fucking up humans - if that was God's will, his purpose then I would want to know about it. The Bible says God is love, and I say okay. Fine. But I'm a practical more rational than emotional person. The way I was raised, in an atheist/irreligious house. So to me, God is truth, and truth is God. If God is a monster, fine, I want to know that. You see? In a way truth is as important to me as God but as it turns out God always leads me to truth or truth to God. They are, ironically oxymoronic, mutually exclusive, paradoxical. because truth is a belief accepted. It's subjective in a sense. All that seems like double speak because people are idiots. Almost always wrong. The truth they accept is either not, or chosen for some other reason. Inadvertently. I say people are idiots and the assumption is always it's a judgement call on everyone else from my perspective. It isn't. I exclude no one. I'm a person. So I have to assume I'm almost always wrong. Fortunately for me that isn't a challenge. Someone who is an ideologue, like, let's say Mr. Ball, would almost rather die than be wrong because their idiocy is their ego. It's a part of them they can't let go. They think if they're wrong in a debate, for example, they lose when the exact opposite should be true. They would win by learning where they were wrong. When idiotic atheists act as if science is their god they deify it, compromise it, sacrifice it to their ego.

I, uh . . . what the hell was I talking about? I have to entertain myself by playing the jester. Playing the part of the village idiot teaches me about the village. I just get bored anyway. But . . . there was a point to be made but I'll be fucking hell if I'm going to make it, see if I don't.

[people think my posts are rambling angry tirades that have me pulling at my bald patch and pounding my fists on the desk. They may ramble but I'm far more likely to fall out of my chair to the floor with tears of laughter.]

Data, was god shocked that it creations turned or evolved, as you put it, into monsters?

(September 16, 2023 at 10:31 am)Data Wrote:

(September 16, 2023 at 6:20 am)h4ym4n Wrote: Data’s a coward and has to tap dance around the truth that his/her god created demons and satan/lucifer/devil exactly as they are.

Why dose your god have to create hateful monsters to fuck up humans Data?


WTF is the othe crap you typed out?

The Hebrew word satan means adversary, resistor. Do you understand what that means? If God had created Satan the Devil (devil means slanderer, liar) as he was then those descriptive titles wouldn't have been given to him because he wouldn't have been those things.

Help a girl out.  Show me in scripture where the devil ever lied.

Quote:Anecdotally I think that the names given us for spirit beings aren't the names they use for themselves, that is especially true of Satan. He wasn't given that name upon his creation, but only after his sin.

I can't find anywhere in scripture where Satan actually sinned.  Certainly you must not think it was in Isaiah 14:14, since you state below that passage refers to Nebuchadnezzar II. If you think it has to do with the war in heaven in Revelation 12, certainly losing a war is no sin.

Quote:Lucifer is a Latin word that means light bearer. Think lightning bug, glow worm, luciferase. The Hebrew word is הֵילֵל, hêlēl, which means shining one. The Greek Εωσφόρος Eosfóros, ho he‧o‧spho′ros, “the bringer of dawn (morn). Isaiah 14:12. It doesn't apply to Satan in this instance. Here it is referring to the Babylonian dynasty which at the time was represented by Nebuchadnezzar. So, it's talking about him and Babylon. Go back to verse 1 and read it through. The term is, if you can see by following the link above and comparing translations, a metaphor. Morning star, daystar, bringer of dawn. These terms are used in the Bible for Jesus, Satan and Nebuchadnezzar. It means a marker for change. The daystar or morning star is the last star on the horizon to appear before the dawn.

In a literary sense Satan, Nebuchadnezzar and Jesus signified change. Satan brought sin, Nebuchadnezzar brought down the rebellious Israelites who represented Jehovah's earthly kingdom and Jesus brought salvation.

I'm still trying to figure out when and where Satan actually brought sin.  Nebuchadnezzar had a strong army but he offered salvation to the Judahites for the price of tribute and the Judahites canceled their salvation subscription.  Jesus saw that operation and wanted to do the same thing, but without even putting together an army.  His solution was to offer salvation from what he would do to you in the afterlife.

(September 15, 2023 at 8:28 pm)Data Wrote: Michael is the first born only begotten. The first of creation and the only thing created exclusively by Jehovah.

On the contrary, St. Michael the archangel was created by God the Son, Jesus Christ, as it is written:

Colossians 1:

[12] Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

[13] Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

[14] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

[15] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

[16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

You have come to Atheist Forums without a good handle on Sacred Scripture. You need to bring your "A" game.

There are no demons, no devils, no mythological garbage. 
It's nothing but a childish explanation for ignorants for where"evil" came from. 

The "angels" evil and good came from Babylonian (yes, yet another "pagan" influence on Hebrew culture). 
They almost all have pagan names related to the chief pagan god, "El Elyon". Even Israel is named for a pagan god. 
Isra-el ... "walks with "El". 
Rapha-el, Micha-el, Uri-el, .... the messengers of El. The chief Babylonian deity was "El". 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan#:~:t...0followers.

If you really want to know where Satan and it's mythology came from, read Dr. Elaine Pagels' (Princeton University) "The Origins of Satan". 
Satan came from "pagan" (Babylonian origins ... and BTW, real scholars no longer use the word "pagan" as any god is as good as another god, and they are all bullshit.

(September 16, 2023 at 11:09 am)LinuxGal Wrote:

(September 15, 2023 at 8:28 pm)Data Wrote: Michael is the first born only begotten. The first of creation and the only thing created exclusively by Jehovah.

On the contrary, St. Michael the archangel was created by God the Son, Jesus Christ, as it is written:

Colossians 1:

[12] Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

[13] Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

[14] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

[15] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

[16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

You have come to Atheist Forums without a good handle on Sacred Scripture. You need to bring your "A" game.

He's a self-taught idiot who has NO handle on anything. He would flunk out of any formal course on anything, but especially on the Bible.

(September 16, 2023 at 8:44 am)Bucky Ball Wrote: LMFAO
That's great. What random word generator do you use ?
Unfortunately for you, you are totally incapable of supporting the bullshit you post.
No one her buys your Buy-Bull.
You are yet another nut-job dismissed.
You can cite no scholar that buys your hogwash.

It's all in my head, Sweet Wisdom. You can't read it in a book. You can't be indoctrinated. Yeah, this stuff, the stuff I'm saying? You might as well not pay any attention to it at all, Dumbo. You're all ears. No brain. Ya' can't think for yourself.

I don't impress you. You're losing . . . Mr. Ball. Take another approach. Take, in fact, one for the team. Sacrifice your ego to the groupthink. Don't cite scholars to me. I already know them and your religiosity only fucks it up in translation. No one else is interested and I already know them. Think, Mr. Ball, for yourself.

Let's dance!

What I said:

Angels in God's image: Genesis 1:26: And God went on to say: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness." Us is Jehovah and Michael. “In our image (shadow; semblance).” Hebrew betsal‧me′nu. Michael - (Masoretic from Codex Leningrad Vatican ms 1209 - Biblia Hebraica and Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia) Hebrew, Mi‧kha‧ʼel′) (Septuagint, Syriac Peshitta, Latin Vulgate) meaning “Who Is Like God?” Idiot.

They existed long before earth was created: Job 38:4-7

The seventh day of rest: (Genesis 2:1-3; Isaiah 40:28; John 5:17; Hebrews 3:16-4:11)

Don't let the traditions of scholars distract you.

(September 16, 2023 at 11:09 am)LinuxGal Wrote:

(September 15, 2023 at 8:28 pm)Data Wrote: Michael is the first born only begotten. The first of creation and the only thing created exclusively by Jehovah.

On the contrary, St. Michael the archangel was created by God the Son, Jesus Christ, as it is written:

Colossians 1:

[12] Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

[13] Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

[14] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

[15] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

[16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

You have come to Atheist Forums without a good handle on Sacred Scripture. You need to bring your "A" game.

No, you need to think about what you're saying. Michael is Jesus. He was created by Jehovah.

(September 16, 2023 at 11:44 am)Data Wrote:

(September 16, 2023 at 11:09 am)LinuxGal Wrote: On the contrary, St. Michael the archangel was created by God the Son, Jesus Christ, as it is written:

Colossians 1:

[12] Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

[13] Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

[14] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

[15] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

[16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

You have come to Atheist Forums without a good handle on Sacred Scripture. You need to bring your "A" game.

No, you need to think about what you're saying. Michael is Jesus. He was created by Jehovah.

Where in the Bible does it say Michael is Jesus? Are you a JW, by the way?

(September 16, 2023 at 11:19 am)Bucky Ball Wrote: He's a self-taught idiot who has NO handle on anything. He would flunk out of any formal course on anything, but especially on the Bible.

God, you're so boring! Didn't they teach anything to you in your mythology/interpretive dance classes? FACK!