(October 23, 2023 at 10:13 am)FrustratedFool Wrote:

(October 23, 2023 at 6:16 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I don’t see smoking as aesthetically appealing at all. All health aspects aside, the act of smoking looks idiotic - people look better when they aren’t wreathed in smoke. As The Sons Of The Pioneers put it:

Cigareets is a blot on the whole human race
A man is a monkey with one in his face.
That’s my definition, I tell you dear brother -
A fire on one end and a fool on the other.

As for your cigars, I’ve never smelled cigar smoke that didn’t stink worse than an Abo’s armpit.

Boru

Aesthetics are certainly a matter of taste.  As are smells  

Plenty find the visual of smoke and the odour of tobacco rather pleasant.

Which is why I said I don’t see anything aesthetic about it.

And I’m sure junkies find heroin rather pleasant. Do you find heroin users aesthetically pleasing?

Boru

(October 23, 2023 at 11:07 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(October 23, 2023 at 10:13 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: Aesthetics are certainly a matter of taste.  As are smells  

Plenty find the visual of smoke and the odour of tobacco rather pleasant.

Which is why I said I don’t see anything aesthetic about it.

And I’m sure junkies find heroin rather pleasant. Do you find heroin users aesthetically pleasing?

Boru

I think the opium pipe can be presented in an aesthetically pleasing fashion, far more so than cocaine sniffing.

And there is certainly a coolness, though not a pleasant aesthetic quality, to heroin injection (plenty of rock songs and artists ensured that connection).

And there is a small window of time where heroin-chic thin models look good.

But junkies in their later decrepitude don't look attractive at all.

Do you find any risky activity performer or object cool or aesthetic?  Fast cars, deadly guns or blades, unprotected casual sex, free climbing, base jumping, boxing, mountaineering, etc?

(October 23, 2023 at 11:17 am)FrustratedFool Wrote:

(October 23, 2023 at 11:07 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Which is why I said I don’t see anything aesthetic about it.

And I’m sure junkies find heroin rather pleasant. Do you find heroin users aesthetically pleasing?

Boru

I think the opium pipe can be presented in an aesthetically pleasing fashion, far more so than cocaine sniffing.

And there is certainly a coolness, though not a pleasant aesthetic quality, to heroin injection (plenty of rock songs and artists ensured that connection).

And there is a small window of time where heroin-chic thin models look good.

But junkies in their later decrepitude don't look attractive at all.

Do you find any risky activity performer or object cool or aesthetic?  Fast cars, deadly guns or blades, unprotected casual sex, free climbing, base jumping, boxing, mountaineering, etc?

Some of them, sure, but I don’t fret over those activities/objects since they aren’t a threat to me, either physically or economically. I can’t see how other people having a punch up is a drain on society.

Full disclosure: I was a boxer in my younger days, so I admit to some bias.

Boru

It is different in the UK with the NHS.
Ultimately, it is taxpayer money which provides health care for everyone.

So if a boxer or athlete gets hurt, their treatment is paid for by taxpayers. In that distemper, pretty much every choice affects others. You eat a burger, you drive a car, you work a stressful job etc - other people pay for your choices.

Of course, choices always matter. If you got brain damage whilst boxing society would be robbed of your productivity and would gave to foot the bill kne way or another.

Everything costs everyone at some point.

(October 23, 2023 at 12:33 pm)FrustratedFool Wrote: It is different in the UK with the NHS.
Ultimately, it is taxpayer money which provides health care for everyone.

So if a boxer or athlete gets hurt, their treatment is paid for by taxpayers.  In that distemper, pretty much every choice affects others.  You eat a burger, you drive a car, you work a stressful job etc - other people pay for your choices.

Of course, choices always matter.  If you got brain damage whilst boxing society would be robbed of your productivity and would gave to foot the bill kne way or another.

Everything costs everyone at some point.

I know precisely how the NHS in the UK works, firsthand. But it doesn’t matter if taxpayers or private insurance companies foot the bill, it comes to the same in the end: more money spend on healthcare equals less money for other things, regardless of where that money comes from. And the strain on healthcare resources is the same.

It’s a little disingenuous of you to compare athletes to smokers. Boxers may get injured, smokers will get sick. It’s also a stupid comparison because smokers outnumber boxers in the UK by 10 to 1.

Do your country a favour and quit smoking.

Boru

(October 23, 2023 at 10:29 am)FrustratedFool Wrote:

(October 23, 2023 at 10:23 am)Jackalope Wrote: If you want to fetishize self-destruction, I suppose that's your business.

I'm not sure it's a conscious thing.

Nor do I think it's mostly about the self-destruction (though that is certainly a factor).

But many humans do seem to be drawn to various forms of self-damage or activities of self-destruction, or which come with damage as part of the package, from getting tattoos and piercings to doing heroin or driving fast cars.  

It's interesting that finding the aesthetics and rituals of smoking as appealing is seen in such ways and garners such strong negative reactions.  Often it seems more taboo than drug use, heavy drinking, or extreme sports.  I have little idea why, but it's certainly interesting to me.

If you've read my posts here, it shouldn't be a mystery why I have such a strong reaction.

Smoking killed my step-mother, contributed to my father's death (even though he didn't smoke), and killed my first wife's aunt and uncle.

Watch someone you care about die of lung cancer and you might understand.

Used to be a social smoker, meaning I'd smoke occasionally when out drinking.

I'd go through maybe a pack a year.

Stopped years ago.

No regrets.

Wasn't this thread closed a minute ago?

It was?

Yes. It was locked, and then there was Boru and Jackalopes comments, and then yours and it was unlocked.